Civilisation

Hello

I have just posted a reply about the existence of aliens and ended by wondering if they are waiting for us to become truly civilised.

Here is a real problem for you all--"What are the criteria for a race of beings to be called 'Truly Civilised'?"

PPLLnL

Peter

gilly wrote:Hello


"What are the criteria for a race of beings to be called 'Truly Civilised'?"

PPLLnL

Peter

Well the word 'civilized' ......civil-ized....to become civil. And if you are civil to other people you are respectful, accommodating, accepting and pleasant....

feather wrote:

gilly wrote:Hello


"What are the criteria for a race of beings to be called 'Truly Civilised'?"

PPLLnL

Peter

Well the word 'civilized' ......civil-ized....to become civil. And if you are civil to other people you are respectful, accommodating, accepting and pleasant....

A good answer for a civilised individual, but is that enough for a race or species?

PPLLnL

Peter

can there be such a criteria? and who sets this criteria? we or the others that evaluate us?

but here is my question: why would anyone wait for us to become something, i hear this claim over and over again and i wonder why should someone- anyone care that much about us? if we are so un-civilized, so under developed, why are we so important? really asking as i can't figure that one, myself - logically it doesn't make sense.

S

shayn wrote:can there be such a criteria? and who sets this criteria? we or the others that evaluate us?

but here is my question: why would anyone wait for us to become something, i hear this claim over and over again and i wonder why should someone- anyone care that much about us? if we are so un-civilized, so under developed, why are we so important? really asking as i can't figure that one, myself - logically it doesn't make sense.

S

A very good question shayne to which I have no direct answer--But maybe an analogy!!

I have just come in from creosoting my garden fence-why did I carefully remove the little nest of spiders instead od just creosoting over them??? I could repeat your question-why did I bother, why should I care about a creepy crawley? Because it is 'LIFE' that is my reason for bothering--maybe , just maybe the same applies to them and us!

PPLLnL

Peter

maybe?
well i sure hope they will not destroy us :) but if they really care, and if there is criteria for that, i really don't know.
ok, and if we put a side those who are watching us from far there waiting... and just look at your question from a philosophical point of view, still you have a very good question: i think it was Kant who spoke about that in one of his writings and i'm sure he is not the only one. in what stage are we, can we call ourselves civilized? and what is the criteria for this or for that matter what will be the definition for civilized?

still Gilly sorry that all i have are more questions and no answers...


S

Interesting topic,Peter.

Would this civilisation be waiting for us to mature and reach their level for some reason?

Are they wanting to join with us to form a greater world in the future?

Just my thoughts.

Joanie

Maybe they are not so much waiting ....it just hasn't happened yet because...the time is not right....some crucial pieces in the picture are still missing.

When things happen, it is because the time is right for everything that needs to be present for something to occur, is in the right place at the right time.

Like a seed...it cannot germinate unless the the things it needs to grow are present altogether in the one moment in time...the right temperature, place, soil, nutrients, water etc.

In my opinion....

IF they are waiting for us to become more civilized, I think that the criteria might be for us to begin looking past the individual and begin focusing on 'the greater good' for all. For far too long we have focused on ourselves and our individual countries. It is time - past time, actually - for the human race to open it's hearts to all living being on this planet.

We are all interconnected. We all depend on all around us for our survival. We destroy the plants, we destroy the air we breathe. We destroy the oceans, we destroy those that dwell within that we depend on for food. We destroy the soil, we destroy our ability to grow the food we need. We continue to pollute, we bring on global warming, causing mass die-offs of plant and animals which we depend on for food.

How do we become more civilized? Understand that we are not here to destroy all around us, and do all we can to protect and preserve the earth and it's inhabitants.

1antique wrote:In my opinion....

IF they are waiting for us to become more civilized, I think that the criteria might be for us to begin looking past the individual and begin focusing on 'the greater good' for all. For far too long we have focused on ourselves and our individual countries. It is time - past time, actually - for the human race to open it's hearts to all living being on this planet.

We are all interconnected. We all depend on all around us for our survival. We destroy the plants, we destroy the air we breathe. We destroy the oceans, we destroy those that dwell within that we depend on for food. We destroy the soil, we destroy our ability to grow the food we need. We continue to pollute, we bring on global warming, causing mass die-offs of plant and animals which we depend on for food.

How do we become more civilized? Understand that we are not here to destroy all around us, and do all we can to protect and preserve the earth and it's inhabitants.

That will do for me 1a, it is the best I have heard with reguard to our own species.

It does pose another question-(always assuming there is another alien race waiting somewhere in the wings.)

Why do they not try and educate us? Would we not in the future, having outgrown our current bad habits, try to educate another planet that was commiting the same mistakes that we had!

PPLLnL

Peter

Peter

The human race is an arrogant species. Direct contact for the purpose of 'education' would not be recieved well. Think of the attempted education about global warming and how it was recieved. The hackles went up and the spurs dug in in. "Nobody is going is going to tell me how to run my life."

We, as a species, much reach the answers on our own (with a little indirect guidance from our friends in Spirit and space). We have to be allowed to grow into the understanding that our world is not infinite...and niether are we.

We must care for that which cares for us, or we both die.

gilly wrote:

1antique wrote:In my opinion....

IF they are waiting for us to become more civilized, I think that the criteria might be for us to begin looking past the individual and begin focusing on 'the greater good' for all. For far too long we have focused on ourselves and our individual countries. It is time - past time, actually - for the human race to open it's hearts to all living being on this planet.

We are all interconnected. We all depend on all around us for our survival. We destroy the plants, we destroy the air we breathe. We destroy the oceans, we destroy those that dwell within that we depend on for food. We destroy the soil, we destroy our ability to grow the food we need. We continue to pollute, we bring on global warming, causing mass die-offs of plant and animals which we depend on for food.

How do we become more civilized? Understand that we are not here to destroy all around us, and do all we can to protect and preserve the earth and it's inhabitants.

That will do for me 1a, it is the best I have heard with reguard to our own species.

It does pose another question-(always assuming there is another alien race waiting somewhere in the wings.)

Why do they not try and educate us? Would we not in the future, having outgrown our current bad habits, try to educate another planet that was commiting the same mistakes that we had!

PPLLnL

Peter

dear Peter: if they teach us, would we listen? sadly i'm afraid the answer is NO, when do people ever listen? yes, we learn at school because we must to, but how many would learn and listen out of free will? i believe few.

sorry for being such a pessimist :(

s

1antique and shayne

you have touched a nerve!! TY much to think about!

PPLLnL to bothof you

Peter

Sorry Peter if my words came too hard :(


mind you, i might be just too pessimist about our race, too much history and philosophy.
but i also see this happen time and again with my line of work - and i must say it really makes me sad, so much pain could be saved and turn into happiness.

sorry
s

Peter

I hope it was a good nerve.

shayn wrote:Sorry Peter if my words came too hard :(


mind you, i might be just too pessimist about our race, too much history and philosophy.
but i also see this happen time and again with my line of work - and i must say it really makes me sad, so much pain could be saved and turn into happiness.

sorry
s

No apologies needed dear lady and yes 1antique it was indeed a good nerve.

Maybe we have been looking at this the wrong way round--What makes a race/species 'uncivilised'??

Was the Roman Empire 'civilised'? We would probably say NO from our stand point in time. But it was probably more civilised than some that had come before.

So let me start with Rome--why not civilsed?

1) All non-Roman life was worthless except perhaps as slaves.

2) The gladiatorial games put on to entertain the masses is a far cry from current day TV!

3) Their aim was to 'conquer' and 'subjecate' all other races.

So from this I am able to write 3 criteria for being civilised!

1) Respect ALL life and all lifeforms--yes even the spider!

2) Taking another life for any reason is not justified.

3) We must all live together in harmony--yes 1antique, we fail here between ourselves let alone the consideration of other lifeforms we share this planet with.

PPLLnL

Peter

There is another thing that I can think of right off the top of my head...that is greed.

Our society strives for possessions above all else. It does not matter if it is money, personal possessions, or those things of the sexual nature.

The more we have the more powerful we are....leaving those without those things at the bottom of society. It matters not that they have the ability to give of themselves to society...they are the poor...the worthless. They are unimportant to society and should be avoided at all costs.

Isn't it time to realize that possessions mean nothing?

Isn't it time to realize that ALL of us have something to give to others?

Isn't it time to realize that ALL of us are equal and important?

If we are under observation, if other species are waiting for us to demonstrate civilization.

Gilly, this is what I feel would be apart of the civilization formula:

Not to evolve, but just know that we are "being." We should stop fighting, to do, have, accomplish, discover and just live the "is."
Right now, embrace the "all." Civilization is knowing that there is no escape from each other.
Knowing each life is dependent upon the other. Order is from within not from some rule or law we make to govern ourselves.

"Same" is enormously bigger than "different" and most important "Love" and "Learning" are equals. These are a few principals that defines civilization for me.

I love your very insightful question gilly.

TY CW for your comments--one in particular set me thinking--haha have just spent half an hour finding it!

Right now, embrace the "all." Civilization is knowing that there is no escape from each other.
Knowing each life is dependent upon the other. Order is from within not from some rule or law we make to govern ourselves.

1) Having a fridge, clothes to wear, a roof over your head and a place to sleep--you are one of the top 25%

2)If you have money in a bank and in your wallet and change in your pocket--you are on of the top8%

3)If you own your own computer--you are one of the top 1%

4)If you are able to read this or a translation --you are more blessed than 2 BILLION people

makes you think does it not!!!

PPLLnL

Peter

LOL...gilly thank you, I read your comments with gratitude, wonderful to see there are other humans who know; "WE ARE BEING!" That is all.

When we think about it, does it matter what our worldly possessions are? My answer is "NO."
Does it matter what we are being? My answer to that question is "Yes."
"Yes," our love, thoughts, feelings, actions, desires, intentions, faith, courage, and so on..........with many other internal principals.
These are the things that makes our accomplishments unforgettable. These are the precious jewels that define who we are and plunge us into being an undeniable, great civilization.

PS: For all you aliens out there watching us, "I hope you have some of these treasures!"

Love to all..

Hi CW

Why is it that so many of us 'pursue' wealth and power???

here in the UK we are going through a strange period where our government says it is bringing in FAIR changes. But in fact the rich are getting richer and the poor poorer.

I am not rich but am a long way from being poor--why must those who are poorest provide for the richest?

We are almost heading back to 'feudal' times when the 'Lord' of the manor dictated to the rest.

sorry--a very confused

Peter

Hi CW

Why is it that so many of us 'pursue' wealth and power???

here
in the UK we are going through a strange period where our government
says it is bringing in FAIR changes. But in fact the rich are getting
richer and the poor poorer.

I am not rich but am a long way from being poor--why must those who are poorest provide for the richest?

We are almost heading back to 'feudal' times when the 'Lord' of the manor dictated to the rest.

sorry--a very confused

Peter

My Dear Peter,
We only think things have changed "there is nothing new under the sun." We pursue wealth because it creates the illusion of blissfulness and happiness. When in fact wealth doesn't make you happy it only creates the illusion that you are not sad.

How many times have you been sad inside but created the illusion that you were not? Especially, in the work place!

Here in the US when a rich man want to purchase something like the "Yankee Stadium" guest what? Its the poor tax payers who actually pay for the new stadium in their city. They may never get a chance to even step foot in it because the ticket prices are to expensive. Therefore, the poor man pay for the rich man's toys and never really get a chance to play with them.

For these reasons I must raise my value system higher than earthly things. Universal treasures have an unmeasurable price tag and profit margin...these are the true treasures! These treasures have value that will produce unmeasurable profits, prosperity, not to mention eternal joy, peace and happiness.

Thank you for listening.

Now, one might raise the question; how do I know these treasures I speak of are eternal and will produce eternal profits?

OK CW

you have me 'hooked' How do you know??

Peter

As I mentioned earlier nothing is new, all that is said and done has already been. When we employ treasures such as love, forgiveness, compassion etc...and the list goes on and on. These valuable attributes are far............greater than material or tangible treasures we know and value on earth..When a person pass on to death, the love they exhibit on earth transcends throughout the universe and all generations. This one I have seen and experienced, as I am born into the forth of six living generations. The first living generational member is almost 100 years old. As I look and share through the eyes of those of old and young, I get a glimpses of a never ending story.

When my son passed away at six years old, 22 years ago, time haven't begun to put a dent in how much I love and miss him. The same for my grandmother after 50 years, she still miss my great grand mother. Oh how I remember the love she shared so.. well. These are but small examples of what we experience regarding eternal love, compassion, etc..... Now on the other hand, spiritual examples are far beyond human rationing. Its only when we accept that we know nothing or so very little is; when we become open to receive plenty of what is eternal. IMHO, listening and feeling are the best forms of receiving knowledge that's ancient and eternal. These are examples of how I know of eternal things.

Love to all...