Leaving this World!

ameliorate wrote:My mother is currently very close to the end of her life now. She is now 96. She spends most of her time asleep e.g. daytime too and I am wondering what she may be experiencing.  She rarely even opens her eyes now (my sister thinks she doesn't have the energy for this) but can hear what is being said and sometimes raises her eyebrows to indicate communication.  It is as if she doesn't want to be in our world now and I hope that is natural rather than depression.  She's not in a coma, i.e. she can look half awake (semi opened eyes) to receive medication or water.  It is harder for her to eat though since her teeth tend to be clenched together.


The sad thing is that, although she is a Catholic, she does not believe in the afterlife.  I have tried to reassure her that her soul lives on.  I know that, despite her quality of life being very poor (she is bed ridden and cannot even move to change position without help, or feed herself and has advanced dementia so is disorientated, with poor memory recall), she has been afraid to let go.  What is happening to her now - being more in sleep mode - seems a gentle transition to passing over.

I have no knowledge of this transitionary phase.  Could it be that she is being assisted/primed to cross over?  I have heard that when we dream, we enter the astral plane.  I am not sure if that is where she is.

psychoslice wrote:I myself am too busy enjoying my life to think about death and an imagined afterlife, if we live our life to its fullest, then when our time comes to die we will except death as a friend, not an enemy.

mac wrote:

psychoslice wrote:I myself am too busy enjoying my life to think about death and an imagined afterlife, if we live our life to its fullest, then when our time comes to die we will except death as a friend, not an enemy.

You're young and your death could be several decades away.  It's good you're enjoying life but not everyone is as fortunate as you.  Perhaps a time to think about death and what comes next will come one day to you.  And if you research the subject it may be less of an imagined situation.

On this website may be found those who already consider such matters - even those already enjoying their lives.  Maybe they know that death is neither an  enemy nor a friend but simply a natural transition?

psychoslice wrote:I myself am too busy enjoying my life to think about death and an imagined afterlife, if we live our life to its fullest, then when our time comes to die we will except death as a friend, not an enemy.

mac wrote:

ameliorate wrote:My mother is currently very close to the end of her life now. She is now 96. She spends most of her time asleep e.g. daytime too and I am wondering what she may be experiencing.  She rarely even opens her eyes now (my sister thinks she doesn't have the energy for this) but can hear what is being said and sometimes raises her eyebrows to indicate communication.  It is as if she doesn't want to be in our world now and I hope that is natural rather than depression.  She's not in a coma, i.e. she can look half awake (semi opened eyes) to receive medication or water.  It is harder for her to eat though since her teeth tend to be clenched together.


The sad thing is that, although she is a Catholic, she does not believe in the afterlife.  I have tried to reassure her that her soul lives on.  I know that, despite her quality of life being very poor (she is bed ridden and cannot even move to change position without help, or feed herself and has advanced dementia so is disorientated, with poor memory recall), she has been afraid to let go.  What is happening to her now - being more in sleep mode - seems a gentle transition to passing over.

I have no knowledge of this transitionary phase.  Could it be that she is being assisted/primed to cross over?  I have heard that when we dream, we enter the astral plane.  I am not sure if that is where she is.

It's sad when parents reach the end of their lives in such ways.

 My own mother passed at a similar age and although dementia wasn't a major factor, physical frailty blighted the last few years of her life.  It was always a great sadness that although (as you know) I'm a long time  Spiritualist, I was unable to reassure her that she would live on and that her own parents (who she greatly missed) would be there for her.

I hope, too, that your mother isn't depressed and her progressive withdrawal from this world makes sense to me.  I can't be certain but my strong view is that support is likely being provided by unseen helpers as your mother prepares for leaving her old and worn out body.  I expect that's the case for all of us as we near death even if we aren't consciously registering that support.  In a similar way we have support when we enter this world.  When physical and mental faculties disappear I also expect that our spirits begin to spend more time away from the body in a way similar to Astral travelling. 

Perhaps that's where increasingly lengthy periods of contact are made 'behind-the-scenes' with those who will help most during the final separation?

psychoslice wrote:

mac wrote:

psychoslice wrote:I myself am too busy enjoying my life to think about death and an imagined afterlife, if we live our life to its fullest, then when our time comes to die we will except death as a friend, not an enemy.

You're young and your death could be several decades away.  It's good you're enjoying life but not everyone is as fortunate as you.  Perhaps a time to think about death and what comes next will come one day to you.  And if you research the subject it may be less of an imagined situation.

On this website may be found those who already consider such matters - even those already enjoying their lives.  Maybe they know that death is neither an  enemy nor a friend but simply a natural transition?

Well yes I am young at heart, but I just turned sixty, I have been shot and survived, I have had cancer and got through that hell, but here I am happy, in fact more happier than ever, no, there is no excuse, in fact if you don't know how to live this life, then how the hell would you be able to live another......which I don't believe in.

I must be losing it!  I thought I'd seen something with your age at 39...  go figure.  

 Until or unless you experience something to change your mind you'll perhaps go through the remainder of your life holding the same belief that there's nothing after it.  You've had some tough years and it's understandable you're celebrating being alive and the prospect of death and the afterlife are somewhat remote for you.  If your lack of persuasion about survival isn't a source of concern then go for it.  It really doesn't matter what you believe or whether you dismiss the notion because we all survive whatever belief we hold whilst incarnate.

ameliorate wrote:

mac wrote:

ameliorate wrote:My mother is currently very close to the end of her life now. She is now 96. She spends most of her time asleep e.g. daytime too and I am wondering what she may be experiencing.  She rarely even opens her eyes now (my sister thinks she doesn't have the energy for this) but can hear what is being said and sometimes raises her eyebrows to indicate communication.  It is as if she doesn't want to be in our world now and I hope that is natural rather than depression.  She's not in a coma, i.e. she can look half awake (semi opened eyes) to receive medication or water.  It is harder for her to eat though since her teeth tend to be clenched together.


The sad thing is that, although she is a Catholic, she does not believe in the afterlife.  I have tried to reassure her that her soul lives on.  I know that, despite her quality of life being very poor (she is bed ridden and cannot even move to change position without help, or feed herself and has advanced dementia so is disorientated, with poor memory recall), she has been afraid to let go.  What is happening to her now - being more in sleep mode - seems a gentle transition to passing over.

I have no knowledge of this transitionary phase.  Could it be that she is being assisted/primed to cross over?  I have heard that when we dream, we enter the astral plane.  I am not sure if that is where she is.

It's sad when parents reach the end of their lives in such ways.

 My own mother passed at a similar age and although dementia wasn't a major factor, physical frailty blighted the last few years of her life.  It was always a great sadness that although (as you know) I'm a long time  Spiritualist, I was unable to reassure her that she would live on and that her own parents (who she greatly missed) would be there for her.

I hope, too, that your mother isn't depressed and her progressive withdrawal from this world makes sense to me.  I can't be certain but my strong view is that support is likely being provided by unseen helpers as your mother prepares for leaving her old and worn out body.  I expect that's the case for all of us as we near death even if we aren't consciously registering that support.  In a similar way we have support when we enter this world.  When physical and mental faculties disappear I also expect that our spirits begin to spend more time away from the body in a way similar to Astral travelling. 

Perhaps that's where increasingly lengthy periods of contact are made 'behind-the-scenes' with those who will help most during the final separation?

Thank you mac for this post.  It was helpful and I also feel that there are helpers to assist her along her way.  

It is done now/over - she has gone...the news came in the early morning.  In many ways the mother we knew had left about a year earlier since dementia strips away the personality.  I have had a long time to prepare for this and so I hope to not be too badly affected with this news - she wouldn't have wanted that (she expressed concern about it).

She was a wonderful, cheerful and warm woman.  Yesterday a member of staff, at the care home, cried at her being so obviously close to death - she had all the appearance of a dead person....pale, drawn, with open mouth/gaping expression.   Another member of staff was off work but texted in to ask how she was!   Her suffering is now over.  Peace.

mac wrote:

ameliorate wrote:

mac wrote:

ameliorate wrote:My mother is currently very close to the end of her life now. She is now 96. She spends most of her time asleep e.g. daytime too and I am wondering what she may be experiencing.  She rarely even opens her eyes now (my sister thinks she doesn't have the energy for this) but can hear what is being said and sometimes raises her eyebrows to indicate communication.  It is as if she doesn't want to be in our world now and I hope that is natural rather than depression.  She's not in a coma, i.e. she can look half awake (semi opened eyes) to receive medication or water.  It is harder for her to eat though since her teeth tend to be clenched together.


The sad thing is that, although she is a Catholic, she does not believe in the afterlife.  I have tried to reassure her that her soul lives on.  I know that, despite her quality of life being very poor (she is bed ridden and cannot even move to change position without help, or feed herself and has advanced dementia so is disorientated, with poor memory recall), she has been afraid to let go.  What is happening to her now - being more in sleep mode - seems a gentle transition to passing over.

I have no knowledge of this transitionary phase.  Could it be that she is being assisted/primed to cross over?  I have heard that when we dream, we enter the astral plane.  I am not sure if that is where she is.

It's sad when parents reach the end of their lives in such ways.

 My own mother passed at a similar age and although dementia wasn't a major factor, physical frailty blighted the last few years of her life.  It was always a great sadness that although (as you know) I'm a long time  Spiritualist, I was unable to reassure her that she would live on and that her own parents (who she greatly missed) would be there for her.

I hope, too, that your mother isn't depressed and her progressive withdrawal from this world makes sense to me.  I can't be certain but my strong view is that support is likely being provided by unseen helpers as your mother prepares for leaving her old and worn out body.  I expect that's the case for all of us as we near death even if we aren't consciously registering that support.  In a similar way we have support when we enter this world.  When physical and mental faculties disappear I also expect that our spirits begin to spend more time away from the body in a way similar to Astral travelling. 

Perhaps that's where increasingly lengthy periods of contact are made 'behind-the-scenes' with those who will help most during the final separation?

Thank you mac for this post.  It was helpful and I also feel that there are helpers to assist her along her way.  

It is done now/over - she has gone...the news came in the early morning.  In many ways the mother we knew had left about a year earlier since dementia strips away the personality.  I have had a long time to prepare for this and so I hope to not be too badly affected with this news - she wouldn't have wanted that (she expressed concern about it).

She was a wonderful, cheerful and warm woman.  Yesterday a member of staff, at the care home, cried at her being so obviously close to death - she had all the appearance of a dead person....pale, drawn, with open mouth/gaping expression.   Another member of staff was off work but texted in to ask how she was!   Her suffering is now over.  Peace.

I know you'll understand when I say I'm glad she's made it and I'm equally glad you're able to face her passing as you have done.  It's how I reacted, too, when I faced a similar situation.  Those like ourselves have confidence in what happens after death and we know she's just fine and will feel relieved that you know what you do.  It doesn't stop your missing her physical presence but you'd already lost her to the dementia that took away her individuality and personality.

ameliorate wrote:

psychoslice wrote:I myself am too busy enjoying my life to think about death and an imagined afterlife, if we live our life to its fullest, then when our time comes to die we will except death as a friend, not an enemy.

Curious that you seem not to believe in the afterlife yet call death a friend.

psychoslice wrote:

ameliorate wrote:

psychoslice wrote:I myself am too busy enjoying my life to think about death and an imagined afterlife, if we live our life to its fullest, then when our time comes to die we will except death as a friend, not an enemy.

Curious that you seem not to believe in the afterlife yet call death a friend.

Yes an eternal rest.

psychoslice wrote:

ameliorate wrote:

psychoslice wrote:I myself am too busy enjoying my life to think about death and an imagined afterlife, if we live our life to its fullest, then when our time comes to die we will except death as a friend, not an enemy.

Curious that you seem not to believe in the afterlife yet call death a friend.

Yes an eternal rest.

ameliorate wrote:

psychoslice wrote:

ameliorate wrote:

psychoslice wrote:I myself am too busy enjoying my life to think about death and an imagined afterlife, if we live our life to its fullest, then when our time comes to die we will except death as a friend, not an enemy.

Curious that you seem not to believe in the afterlife yet call death a friend.

Yes an eternal rest.

You look forward to a permanent coma?

mac wrote:

psychoslice wrote:

ameliorate wrote:

psychoslice wrote:I myself am too busy enjoying my life to think about death and an imagined afterlife, if we live our life to its fullest, then when our time comes to die we will except death as a friend, not an enemy.

Curious that you seem not to believe in the afterlife yet call death a friend.

Yes an eternal rest.

An eternal rest for what/whom?  If it's a state of rest then surely that's another form of living - a life after this one or an 'afterlife'?

psychoslice wrote:

ameliorate wrote:

psychoslice wrote:

ameliorate wrote:

psychoslice wrote:I myself am too busy enjoying my life to think about death and an imagined afterlife, if we live our life to its fullest, then when our time comes to die we will except death as a friend, not an enemy.

Curious that you seem not to believe in the afterlife yet call death a friend.

Yes an eternal rest.

You look forward to a permanent coma?

Yep, I'm not greedy and this life is enough, let others have a go, and I feel that if you cannot totally enjoy this life, then how are you going to enjoy another ?.

psychoslice wrote:

mac wrote:

psychoslice wrote:

ameliorate wrote:

psychoslice wrote:I myself am too busy enjoying my life to think about death and an imagined afterlife, if we live our life to its fullest, then when our time comes to die we will except death as a friend, not an enemy.

Curious that you seem not to believe in the afterlife yet call death a friend.

Yes an eternal rest.

An eternal rest for what/whom?  If it's a state of rest then surely that's another form of living - a life after this one or an 'afterlife'?

No, for me its returning back the the Source or Consciousness, this life we have is only an illusion, don't get too involved with it.

ameliorate wrote:

psychoslice wrote:

ameliorate wrote:

psychoslice wrote:

ameliorate wrote:
Curious that you seem not to believe in the afterlife yet call death a friend.

Yes an eternal rest.

You look forward to a permanent coma?

Yep, I'm not greedy and this life is enough, let others have a go, and I feel that if you cannot totally enjoy this life, then how are you going to enjoy another ?.

There are some really odd concepts in this sentence!

Are miscarriages less greedy?  It is compatible that life can be lived to the full AND that we may reincarnate.  That is not about greed but an explanation of karma.  What do you make of those who have experienced their past lives then?  Just imagination?
 

psychoslice wrote:

ameliorate wrote:

psychoslice wrote:

ameliorate wrote:

psychoslice wrote:
Yes an eternal rest.

You look forward to a permanent coma?

Yep, I'm not greedy and this life is enough, let others have a go, and I feel that if you cannot totally enjoy this life, then how are you going to enjoy another ?.

There are some really odd concepts in this sentence!

Are miscarriages less greedy?  It is compatible that life can be lived to the full AND that we may reincarnate.  That is not about greed but an explanation of karma.  What do you make of those who have experienced their past lives then?  Just imagination?
 

Life Is life, it owes us nothing, and what is going to reincarnate ?, our conditioning that we call our personality ?, the only thing that continues is the Source of our Being. Its life the electricity that lights up the light bulbs throughout our house, each light bulb may have their own identity, but when one of these bulbs stop working, what continues is the electricity, the life of the bulb is finished, and the same with us as a mind body organism.

Blueanchor wrote:It doesn't matter what people believe, there's really nothing more comforting or everlasting than a hug   - give yourself lots of hugs Ame x

ameliorate wrote:

psychoslice wrote:

ameliorate wrote:

psychoslice wrote:

ameliorate wrote:
You look forward to a permanent coma?

Yep, I'm not greedy and this life is enough, let others have a go, and I feel that if you cannot totally enjoy this life, then how are you going to enjoy another ?.

There are some really odd concepts in this sentence!

Are miscarriages less greedy?  It is compatible that life can be lived to the full AND that we may reincarnate.  That is not about greed but an explanation of karma.  What do you make of those who have experienced their past lives then?  Just imagination?
 

Life Is life, it owes us nothing, and what is going to reincarnate ?, our conditioning that we call our personality ?, the only thing that continues is the Source of our Being. Its life the electricity that lights up the light bulbs throughout our house, each light bulb may have their own identity, but when one of these bulbs stop working, what continues is the electricity, the life of the bulb is finished, and the same with us as a mind body organism.

That's interesting and sounds akin to what buddhists believe!

I don't know if you are aware of the difference between reincarnation and rebirth. 

With reincarnation (a hindu belief) there is a permanent soul which transmigrates into another body continuously. 

However, the buddhist belief in rebirth is that our karmic energy (i.e. not memories/emotions - that's our ego) dissolves at death and only a subtle mindstream remains - our karmic imprint. This karmic imprint activates at rebirth. They believe that the self is transient and that there is no fixed soul.

Blueanchor wrote:It doesn't matter what people believe, there's really nothing more comforting or everlasting than a hug   - give yourself lots of hugs Ame x

psychoslice wrote:

ameliorate wrote:

psychoslice wrote:Life Is life, it owes us nothing, and what is going to reincarnate ?, our conditioning that we call our personality ?, the only thing that continues is the Source of our Being. Its life the electricity that lights up the light bulbs throughout our house, each light bulb may have their own identity, but when one of these bulbs stop working, what continues is the electricity, the life of the bulb is finished, and the same with us as a mind body organism.

That's interesting and sounds akin to what buddhists believe!

I don't know if you are aware of the difference between reincarnation and rebirth. 

With reincarnation (a hindu belief) there is a permanent soul which transmigrates into another body continuously. 

However, the buddhist belief in rebirth is that our karmic energy (i.e. not memories/emotions - that's our ego) dissolves at death and only a subtle mindstream remains - our karmic imprint. This karmic imprint activates at rebirth. They believe that the self is transient and that there is no fixed soul.

No I don't base what I share on any belief system, I don't have any beliefs that we carry on after what we call death, life is arising from the Source all the time, its here and its gone, its when we get attached to it that we suffer. We come up with all sorts of beliefs to make us feel better, when all along its nothing but a crutch, you are here now, so live Now, don't go on worrying about another life, no matter how you believe that life to be, or whatever ideology you pick.........live NOW.

psychoslice wrote:

Blueanchor wrote:It doesn't matter what people believe, there's really nothing more comforting or everlasting than a hug   - give yourself lots of hugs Ame x

Yes hug yourself oe someone else NOW, because there will be no one to hug after death.

ameliorate wrote:

psychoslice wrote:

ameliorate wrote:

psychoslice wrote:Life Is life, it owes us nothing, and what is going to reincarnate ?, our conditioning that we call our personality ?, the only thing that continues is the Source of our Being. Its life the electricity that lights up the light bulbs throughout our house, each light bulb may have their own identity, but when one of these bulbs stop working, what continues is the electricity, the life of the bulb is finished, and the same with us as a mind body organism.

That's interesting and sounds akin to what buddhists believe!

I don't know if you are aware of the difference between reincarnation and rebirth. 

With reincarnation (a hindu belief) there is a permanent soul which transmigrates into another body continuously. 

However, the buddhist belief in rebirth is that our karmic energy (i.e. not memories/emotions - that's our ego) dissolves at death and only a subtle mindstream remains - our karmic imprint. This karmic imprint activates at rebirth. They believe that the self is transient and that there is no fixed soul.

No I don't base what I share on any belief system, I don't have any beliefs that we carry on after what we call death, life is arising from the Source all the time, its here and its gone, its when we get attached to it that we suffer. We come up with all sorts of beliefs to make us feel better, when all along its nothing but a crutch, you are here now, so live Now, don't go on worrying about another life, no matter how you believe that life to be, or whatever ideology you pick.........live NOW.

I am not suggesting that I believe in reincarnation or rebirth (I am open minded on the subject) - just that what you wrote made me think of the similarity to the buddhist's belief in rebirth.  They share what you have said about the ego not carrying on after death...perhaps you didn't grasp that.

I know what you are saying e.g. in Christianity that through Jesus Christ we can be saved and have eternal life etc.

I DO very much live in the now so I don't need to be told to do this!