Big change coming

Resonator wrote:Recently I pulled the Tower, Death, Wheel of fortune, and 10 of swords cards, one each day, one after another.

This is how I know big change is coming.

mac wrote:

Resonator wrote:Recently I pulled the Tower, Death, Wheel of fortune, and 10 of swords cards, one each day, one after another.

This is how I know big change is coming.

I don't doubt a big change is coming but with respect, isn't it pretty obvious?  I 'hear' that message all the time.

mac wrote:

I don't doubt a big change is coming but with respect, isn't it pretty obvious?  I 'hear' that message all the time.

Good point.  Yes, it seems the world is in a period of accelerated change right now.

But I took the message to mean the my personal life would see a big change, and in fact it has been happening.  I've essentially changed careers in the last few months, just by doing work people asked me to do.  It's also been a while since I've been active here, but I find myself here more and more.   It's like having a whole new group of friends.

Native spirit wrote:So many things going on in the world right now there is no Doubt that Big changes are coming.
 As for it being associated with Tarot i could'nt say.
 I dont get on with tarot cards
 Namaste

mac wrote:... I hope you'll remain and post more on SI although I'm a very rare visitor to Tarot-based forums, here or elsewhere.

ameliorate wrote:On the topic of Big Change Coming (but not on tarot cards), last year I strongly sensed this i.e. that we were very close to having a major global change.  I envisaged something to do with nature/environmental - I guess a virus would cover that!

mac wrote:At various times in the past I've asked practitioners how Tarot works and heard many words in response but few of them genuinely explaining 'how'.....  

To me what appears to be the situation in Tarot is there's a mix of psychic awareness/sensitivity/reading being used, sometimes with the help/views of discarnates coming into the picture, and lastly there's the intuition of the reader.  All those factors are pretty unspecific and highly variable from one individual to the next.

What also has often been my experience is a resistance by practitioners to be questioned about or 'pigeon-holed' (as she/he sees it) or categorised. I've also experienced marked antagonism towards my even asking questions to try to help me understand what's happening.

mac wrote:

Native spirit wrote:So many things going on in the world right now there is no Doubt that Big changes are coming.
 As for it being associated with Tarot i could'nt say.
 I dont get on with tarot cards
 Namaste

At various times in the past I've asked practitioners how Tarot works and heard many words in response but few of them genuinely explaining 'how'.....  

To me what appears to be the situation in Tarot is there's a mix of psychic awareness/sensitivity/reading being used, sometimes with the help/views of discarnates coming into the picture, and lastly there's the intuition of the reader.  All those factors are pretty unspecific and highly variable from one individual to the next.

What also has often been my experience is a resistance by practitioners to be questioned about or 'pigeon-holed' (as she/he sees it) or categorised. I've also experienced marked antagonism towards my even asking questions to try to help me understand what's happening.

Gardenia wrote:

mac wrote:

At various times in the past I've asked practitioners how Tarot works and heard many words in response but few of them genuinely explaining 'how'.....  

To me what appears to be the situation in Tarot is there's a mix of psychic awareness/sensitivity/reading being used, sometimes with the help/views of discarnates coming into the picture, and lastly there's the intuition of the reader.  All those factors are pretty unspecific and highly variable from one individual to the next.

What also has often been my experience is a resistance by practitioners to be questioned about or 'pigeon-holed' (as she/he sees it) or categorised. I've also experienced marked antagonism towards my even asking questions to try to help me understand what's happening.

The reason I'm sure that Tarot readers get the hump if you ask how Tarot works, is that no-one actually knows how it works.

Then their answer should be like yours.....

Even the best Tarot books indicate that no-one knows for sure how it works. Perhaps not knowing annoys some people when asked because humans generally don't like to be thought of as ignorant and of course, if someone doesn't know something, they are ignorant to whatever they have been asked about. 

You've just given a complete explanation of the picture.  Tarot practitioners - in my view - should be aware why they don't know what's happening.  And just say so when asked.  Is it that difficult to say "I don't know."?

Each Tarot reader has their own idea of how Tarot works but of course, it can't be proven.

 It's not the impression I've gained. 

May I ask why you are so curious? It seems you don't personally read the cards so I'm wondering why the interest? If you really want to know, pick up a pack of Tarot cards and use them. Then you can formulate your own theory on how they work. 

I'm interested in communication of all and any kind.  Tarot appears to involve communication.  I'm not interested in developing my own theory about how Tarot works. I look to those who know when I'm seeking to learn, whatever the subject.

There are various theories such as spirit guides, angels, God's messengers, the universal collective, relatives who have passed over, the reader's own subconscious, alien life forms, etc. The list is endless. When all is said and done, I don't think it really matters that we don't know how it works. Such is the nature of anything spiritual. As a Tarot reader myself, I really don't care that I don't know how it works, I simply know that it does, which is enough for me. Sure, I have my belief of how I personally "think" Tarot might work but that is my belief and not necessarily another Tarot reader's belief. It is also fluid. You may start out with a certain belief when you first start learning the cards, but that may change further on down the track after you've encountered certain experiences or read other readers ideas on the subject. For example, when I first started learning Tarot, I thought it worked through ones subconscious. However, after a personal experience with the cards whereby something quite specific was accurately predicted, I changed my stance as I didn't believe the subconscious could possibly know future events.  

So basically, how long is a piece of string? 

Points noted. Thanks for your comments.

Resonator wrote:

mac wrote:At various times in the past I've asked practitioners how Tarot works and heard many words in response but few of them genuinely explaining 'how'.....  

To me what appears to be the situation in Tarot is there's a mix of psychic awareness/sensitivity/reading being used, sometimes with the help/views of discarnates coming into the picture, and lastly there's the intuition of the reader.  All those factors are pretty unspecific and highly variable from one individual to the next.

What also has often been my experience is a resistance by practitioners to be questioned about or 'pigeon-holed' (as she/he sees it) or categorised. I've also experienced marked antagonism towards my even asking questions to try to help me understand what's happening.

Sucks always being the practical one, doesn't it.  Ask me how I know.  

I too have noticed that discussion about just how Tarot works can quickly get contentious.   It seems to be quite the controversy.

I don't mind saying how I think they work for me.   They may work differently for different people, and probably do.  I suspect a lot of the controversy is simply caused by it being a complicated subject, and people demanding that how they see it is the One And Only True Way.

But for me, it's a combination of two things:  

First is the dealing of the cards.   The spiritual perspective shows us that everything is connected.  Not only all of space, but all of time.  All these forces converge perpetually at the point we call 'now'.  Whatever we call these collective forces, whether it's Karma, or biorhythms, or astrology, or whatever, the idea is that at any moment everything around us is influenced by and influencing our current life trajectories.   This is a fundamental spiritual principle.

So, to tap into this, the tarot is designed to concentrate an array of depictions of common situations and themes in one place so that if a particular card is picked at 'random', subject to the same laws as everything else it will reflect those forces which are otherwise invisible (but which are also revealed in our experiences as our life unfolds).   This could be through a variety of mechanisms, as explained, and exactly how this works is by definition a metaphysical mystery, being spiritual - but that's the theory.

Secondly is the interpretation of the card.  This is easily explainable, as the way the human mind works is to find connection and seek explanation.   What's on your mind?   Look at anything and it will tell you, because our POV is all about our priorities, our perspective, our fears and desires of the moment.    

You can do this right now.   Grab the nearest book you can find, open to any random page, and read the first sentence your eye falls on.   Now think about what that could possibly mean to you.   Does it bring to mind any issues that have meaning to you?   If you think hard enough something will always pop up.  It's just the way the human mind works.   I have always been a particularly metaphorical thinker, so it comes natural to me.  

The Tarot concentrates and focuses these ideas to a truly industrial level.  Notice the cards aren't explicit - the cards are very general, depicted with archetypes that narrow a concept but at the same time leaves plenty of room to add specific detail.

For me it is an interesting occasional diversion.   For many it is a way of life, and for many others it does nothing.   The universe loves variety.  

Gardenia wrote:I tried the book thing ... the sentence I got was "For a moment we were pressed against each other and I was very aware of her body against mind as she took a moment to balance herself".   I couldn't find anything in that sentence that holds any meaning for me!

mac wrote:

Gardenia wrote:


Then their answer should be like yours.....

You've just given a complete explanation of the picture.  Tarot practitioners - in my view - should be aware why they don't know what's happening.  And just say so when asked.  Is it that difficult to say "I don't know."?


 It's not the impression I've gained. 


I'm interested in communication of all and any kind.  Tarot appears to involve communication.  I'm not interested in developing my own theory about how Tarot works. I look to those who know when I'm seeking to learn, whatever the subject.



Points noted.  Thanks for your comments.

Gardenia wrote:I totally agree with you. It shouldn't be hard to just say "I don't know". I don't know why some Tarot readers get their backs up. I should have said "Each Tarot reader that I know has their own idea of how Tarot works ... " Maybe some readers like to be thought of as "experts" and feel they should know how it works. 

It's good to be interested and want to learn various things in life. I'm sorry that I am unable to help with your question. When it comes to Tarot or any area of mysticism for that matter, I don't know how anyone could know and anyone who says they do should be looked at with a degree of scepticism.

Gardenia wrote:

mac wrote:

I totally agree with you. It shouldn't be hard to just say "I don't know". I don't know why some Tarot readers get their backs up. I should have said "Each Tarot reader that I know has their own idea of how Tarot works ... " Maybe some readers like to be thought of as "experts" and feel they should know how it works. 

It's good to be interested and want to learn various things in life. I'm sorry that I am unable to help with your question. When it comes to Tarot or any area of mysticism for that matter, I don't know how anyone could know and anyone who says they do should be looked at with a degree of scepticism.

Resonator wrote:

Gardenia wrote:I totally agree with you. It shouldn't be hard to just say "I don't know". I don't know why some Tarot readers get their backs up. I should have said "Each Tarot reader that I know has their own idea of how Tarot works ... " Maybe some readers like to be thought of as "experts" and feel they should know how it works. 

It's good to be interested and want to learn various things in life. I'm sorry that I am unable to help with your question. When it comes to Tarot or any area of mysticism for that matter, I don't know how anyone could know and anyone who says they do should be looked at with a degree of scepticism.

You know, between Mac's and your comments I feel I stepped into a trap.   I was asked for an answer, and I gave an answer... and it seems there is after all only one right answer.

Of course, what do I know - I just speak for myself.

Resonator wrote:

Gardenia wrote:I totally agree with you. It shouldn't be hard to just say "I don't know". I don't know why some Tarot readers get their backs up. I should have said "Each Tarot reader that I know has their own idea of how Tarot works ... " Maybe some readers like to be thought of as "experts" and feel they should know how it works. 

It's good to be interested and want to learn various things in life. I'm sorry that I am unable to help with your question. When it comes to Tarot or any area of mysticism for that matter, I don't know how anyone could know and anyone who says they do should be looked at with a degree of scepticism.

You know, between Mac's and your comments I feel I stepped into a trap.   I was asked for an answer, and I gave an answer... and it seems there is after all only one right answer.

Of course, what do I know - I just speak for myself.

linen wrote:

Resonator wrote:
You know, between Mac's and your comments I feel I stepped into a trap.   I was asked for an answer, and I gave an answer... and it seems there is after all only one right answer.

Of course, what do I know - I just speak for myself.

Yes, you did step in a trap.

One that certain others will gladly pounce on.

There is major changes going on.  It's an upheaval.  Millions upon millions out of work, learning to be dependent on the government.  I'd say that alone is a major change.  An eye opener, if you will.

mac wrote:

Resonator wrote:
You know, between Mac's and your comments I feel I stepped into a trap.   I was asked for an answer, and I gave an answer... and it seems there is after all only one right answer.

Of course, what do I know - I just speak for myself.

I hope my comments weren't felt to be part of a trap.  I didn't respond because there was nothing I could relate to - sorry.   I did read it all and ought to have responded by saying what I have said now.

There is no single answer that is right but there are some that are wrong - for me.  But to parrot your words "What do I know?".  About Tarot I know nothing and if there is no simple way to explain how it operates then I'm not likely to learn anything.  

Maybe it's akin to learning about advanced science or maths etc, something you need an aptitude for.  Without the aptitude and a sufficient level of overall comprehension no simple explanation can be given because the subjects just aren't simple beyond a certain level.

55_Degrees wrote:

mac wrote:
At various times in the past I've asked practitioners how Tarot works and heard many words in response but few of them genuinely explaining 'how'.....  

To me what appears to be the situation in Tarot is there's a mix of psychic awareness/sensitivity/reading being used, sometimes with the help/views of discarnates coming into the picture, and lastly there's the intuition of the reader.  All those factors are pretty unspecific and highly variable from one individual to the next.

What also has often been my experience is a resistance by practitioners to be questioned about or 'pigeon-holed' (as she/he sees it) or categorised. I've also experienced marked antagonism towards my even asking questions to try to help me understand what's happening.

I answered this for you on another forum, my answer remains the same.
My cards trigger my subconscious, reading the archetypal patterns portrayed in the images.
Archetypes are ancient images of communication from before the written word. These images allow my subconscious to translate them into a language that is then relayed to the querant.
I will add that I do not know, I use the explanation of the subconscious because 'I do not know' does not satisfy a lot of people who ask how it works, I give my answer as my opinion but it doesn't mean it's a fact. I've had dealings with readers who come up with messages that left me astounded. How do they do it? I don't know.

Because tarot is not a science, its more an interpretation if art, there is no definitive answer to the question 'how does tarot work?'.  Everyone has their own thoughts, ideas and beliefs but there is no tangible explanation, this could be why readers don't want to be pigeon-holed. Another reason could be that, like a spiritual path, tarot reading is a personal thing, all readers are different, from their actual card decks, to the meaning those cards hold for them and how they use them. Not all readers make predictions, not all readers need to go through some drawn out ritual before they read, not all readers believe in angels, spirit guides or that Satan is going drag you through the cards down to Hellfire because you opened a portal to the underworld (haha, yes, we get people telling us this on a regular basis).

I would love to give a science based answer,  I would love to know myself categorically how tarot works.
I often get asked how I stay so slim. The honest answer, I have no idea, I'm just slim it's just how my body is. Like the tarot question, some questions just don't have a set answer.

Also, if readers are getting uppity about being asked, I think you may be prodding a bit of a raw nerve for them. It's not your question that irritates them, it's the fact that they would have to admit fallibility, in that, they don't know everything.  

thank you for your observations

 If one thing is constant in all this it's that nobody thus far appears to knows "how it works".  If no-one does one might then go further to ask how it would be when it's not worked?  Or maybe that's easier to answer?

Perhaps one thing one might also ask is what tarot can reasonably be expected to do.

mac wrote:thank you for your observations

 If one thing is constant in all this it's that nobody thus far appears to knows "how it works".  If no-one does one might then go further to ask how it would be when it's not worked?  Or maybe that's easier to answer?

Perhaps one thing one might also ask is what tarot can reasonably be expected to do.