Choosing exactly when to slip away?

I've heard loads of times how someone will be in their last minutes of their life, with their loved ones by their bedside, and often they will slip away when their loved ones leave the room for a few minutes, do you think this is just down to chance? Or can we choose to go when our loved ones backs are turned, and do you think this happens to spare the feelings of the loved ones?

Violet wrote:I've heard loads of times how someone will be in their last minutes of their life, with their loved ones by their bedside, and often they will slip away when their loved ones leave the room for a few minutes, do you think this is just down to chance? Or can we choose to go when our loved ones backs are turned, and do you think this happens to spare the feelings of the loved ones?

I think God is really nice in how it is handled, especially for those that may not be strong enough. Some cases it is not, but I am sure that is for a very good reason. I am sure that when we do talk to them someday, they wont even know about the sting, even if it was bad.

Violet wrote:I've heard loads of times how someone will be in their last minutes of their life, with their loved ones by their bedside, and often they will slip away when their loved ones leave the room for a few minutes, do you think this is just down to chance? Or can we choose to go when our loved ones backs are turned, and do you think this happens to spare the feelings of the loved ones?

sometimes the family- memeber - spirit hold back the spirit that need to pass over, as sometimes the family memebers are not willing to let go and let the spirit pass over.. and when they leave the room, the spirit is free to continue its way.

s

Violet wrote:I've heard loads of times how someone will be in their last minutes of their life, with their loved ones by their bedside, and often they will slip away when their loved ones leave the room for a few minutes, do you think this is just down to chance? Or can we choose to go when our loved ones backs are turned, and do you think this happens to spare the feelings of the loved ones?

Wow, Violet. You sure ask some deep ones.... In trying to answer this I'd be in guess territory although logic can also play a part.

I'd guess that the one about to pass will sometimes be aware of those around her/him to support in the passing and will be able to discuss the situation with them. The outcome of that might well be that a considered decision is made about the best time. In making the decision I'd say it's logical to consider the interests of loved ones attending the imminent passing - some will cope better with actually being there, others by being away at the exact moment.

At other times I'd guess that it's down to chance.

I'm far from clear whether we can routinely determine for ourselves the exact moment but I'm sure that sometimes, some individuals, can.

Perhaps it comes down to our personal level of spiritual evolvement and understanding of what's involved?

Very interesting questions - thank you!

shayn wrote:

Violet wrote:I've heard loads of times how someone will be in their last minutes of their life, with their loved ones by their bedside, and often they will slip away when their loved ones leave the room for a few minutes, do you think this is just down to chance? Or can we choose to go when our loved ones backs are turned, and do you think this happens to spare the feelings of the loved ones?

sometimes the family- memeber - spirit hold back the spirit that need to pass over, as sometimes the family memebers are not willing to let go and let the spirit pass over.. and when they leave the room, the spirit is free to continue its way.

s

It must be unpleasant to lay dying and know that your loved ones are going to fall to pieces or beg you not to leave them, it may be kinder to them, and less stressful for the one dying too, to slip away when they pop out of the room, your answer would make sense shayn because it would be free with no feelings of guilt to continue it's journey.

mac wrote:

Violet wrote:I've heard loads of times how someone will be in their last minutes of their life, with their loved ones by their bedside, and often they will slip away when their loved ones leave the room for a few minutes, do you think this is just down to chance? Or can we choose to go when our loved ones backs are turned, and do you think this happens to spare the feelings of the loved ones?

Wow, Violet. You sure ask some deep ones.... In trying to answer this I'd be in guess territory although logic can also play a part.

The outcome of that might well be that a considered decision is made about the best time. In making the decision I'd say it's logical to consider the interests of loved ones attending the imminent passing - some will cope better with actually being there, others by being away at the exact moment.

At other times I'd guess that it's down to chance.

I'm far from clear whether we can routinely determine for ourselves the exact moment but I'm sure that sometimes, some individuals, can.

Perhaps it comes down to our personal level of spiritual evolvement and understanding of what's involved?

Very interesting questions - thank you!

Hi Mac, I think all we can do with such questions is guess at the answers, they make for good discussions though and it's always interesting to see what people think. I think if it is possible to decide most would consider the feelings of their loved ones.
But I wonder too if people sometimes don't want to die in front of anybody, loved one or not, it's a big thing and a very personal thing, they might be afraid and not want their loved ones to know how afraid they really are.

Some believe if you are not there at the time of the death you simply weren't meant to be there and that's supposedly why people are sometimes called from the room at that moment, a kind of divine intervention type thing, though i'm not sure I believe that, as it is such a blanket statement to say 'it was meant to be' which doesn't really answer anything, it's used for everything ie:
'why did I have a toothache last week?'

"oh you were meant to, otherwise you'd never have found that fantastic dentist' doh !!!!

You know, this is going to sound just awful but....if I was lying there with my eyes closed and close to death, surrounded by all these people just watching and waiting.... well I'd probably start giggling

violet: "....as it is such a blanket statement to say 'it was meant to
be 'which doesn't really answer anything, it's used for everything"

After I had returned to work following the death of our baby son, one individual I spoke to about it said "He just wasn't mean to be". Initially I was very shocked, hurt and upset at those words because he quite definitely was 'meant to be' in the sense that we had deliberately planned (after many years intentionally without children) to start a family. But his passing marked my entry into an unknown world which now is an integral part of my life - the world of life and death about which I now write quite a lot!

So perhaps he wasn't 'meant to be' because there was a reason why he didn't plan to stay in this physical world - or maybe things just went wrong and I'm looking for something altogether deeper?

One day we'll get to find out, to learn whether any of my ideas about his passing were anywhere near the mark.

mac i'm so sorry for the loss of your son, I sincerely hope you do find the answers.

mac wrote:violet: "....as it is such a blanket statement to say 'it was meant to
be 'which doesn't really answer anything, it's used for everything"

After I had returned to work following the death of our baby son, one individual I spoke to about it said "He just wasn't mean to be". Initially I was very shocked, hurt and upset at those words because he quite definitely was 'meant to be' in the sense that we had deliberately planned (after many years intentionally without children) to start a family. But his passing marked my entry into an unknown world which now is an integral part of my life - the world of life and death about which I now write quite a lot!

So perhaps he wasn't 'meant to be' because there was a reason why he didn't plan to stay in this physical world - or maybe things just went wrong and I'm looking for something altogether deeper?

One day we'll get to find out, to learn whether any of my ideas about his passing were anywhere near the mark.

Mac, i'm sorry for your loss, and i don't know if this might give you some answers, but once a teacher of mine told me that maybe for me it looks like a short time or no time at all, but for the new born spirit it is a life time, and maybe what this spirit needed to learn it learnt in its short time here.. we don't know why spirits come and what they learn, hi we spend life time to learn what we need to know. sometimes a spirit will come for you, maybe your kid's spirit came for you to teach you something.. to maybe open your eyes, and maybe it was an old karma needed to get clear so both of you be able to move on with your "life" - spirit life.
still i know knowing this doesn't lesser the pain.

s

Kaere wrote:You know, this is going to sound just awful but....if I was lying there with my eyes closed and close to death, surrounded by all these people just watching and waiting.... well I'd probably start giggling

It's easy to surmise that's how you'd react, Kaere, but until the actual event you will never know for sure. The emotions you might feel around those who don't know what you know about death might make you feel much less giggly than you believe.

Maybe it would be a relief to slip away to avoid them....?

Violet wrote: mac i'm so sorry for the loss of your son, I sincerely hope you do find the answers.

thanks, Violet. That was a long time ago and my life is altogether different from what it might have been. Who knows if that was the intended outcome?

But I won't make things fit - for now it's just one of life's many unexplained happenings and the outcome happens to be what it is. It does not mean, though, that it was ever intended to be this way. All will be revealed in time

It's interesting, I find, that none of the psychic or mediumistic individuals I encounter have ever found the slightest hint of what happened - mostly there is complete unawareness. I've had some so-called readings but there's never been a single reference to the event.

Curious, perhaps, as one might expect it would be seen in my psyche? 'appen not...

shayn wrote:

mac wrote:violet: "....as it is such a blanket statement to say 'it was meant to
be 'which doesn't really answer anything, it's used for everything"

After I had returned to work following the death of our baby son, one individual I spoke to about it said "He just wasn't mean to be". Initially I was very shocked, hurt and upset at those words because he quite definitely was 'meant to be' in the sense that we had deliberately planned (after many years intentionally without children) to start a family. But his passing marked my entry into an unknown world which now is an integral part of my life - the world of life and death about which I now write quite a lot!

So perhaps he wasn't 'meant to be' because there was a reason why he didn't plan to stay in this physical world - or maybe things just went wrong and I'm looking for something altogether deeper?

One day we'll get to find out, to learn whether any of my ideas about his passing were anywhere near the mark.

Mac, i'm sorry for your loss, and i don't know if this might give you some answers, but once a teacher of mine told me that maybe for me it looks like a short time or no time at all, but for the new born spirit it is a life time, and maybe what this spirit needed to learn it learnt in its short time here.. we don't know why spirits come and what they learn, hi we spend life time to learn what we need to know. sometimes a spirit will come for you, maybe your kid's spirit came for you to teach you something.. to maybe open your eyes, and maybe it was an old karma needed to get clear so both of you be able to move on with your "life" - spirit life.
still i know knowing this doesn't lesser the pain.

s

thanks - I feel guilty at posting as I don't want to make a big thing of it - it was simply that it fitted with what Violet had written earlier.

I still find it curious, though, how you and many others refer to 'spirits' because for me they are simply individuals. They have a life, most likely in mature human form, before they come into the physical and then they return after their passing to another life again as a human form. From very early on in my learning I saw 'spirits' simply as individuals - people as we are - with human form, features and character. Spirits in this example are those who we are still spiritually closest to, not those who have evolved so far that their physicality is greatly diminished or almost gone....

Thanks for your consideration but I don't do karma. Maybe he, maybe I, maybe his mum (or all of us) had something which we needed to resolve. Maybe his coming and going provided one, two or all of us with what was needed. If you call that karma then OK - it's karma. Maybe, though, things just went wrong or he chose not to stay for other reasons.

The pain of the situation is now in memory and does not cause the sadness it once did. It doesn't stop me wondering at times, though, where he is and what he's up to or even how close he might be. In time we'll meet up and one more chapter of life and learning will begin to be written.

Hi Mac,

All will be revealed in time

I'm a firm believer in this too.

I find, that none of the psychic or mediumistic individuals I encounter have ever found the slightest hint of what happened

You missed a word off that line Mac imo......'yet'

Curious, perhaps, as one might expect it would be seen in my psyche? 'appen not...

I don't think it would necessarily be picked up in that way, I think most mediums pick up on the energies/spirits who draw close to them (the sitter,) at the time of the reading, rather than reading the sitter, if they did get that information, i'm sure it would be a spirit telling or showing them what happened. But I could be wrong...

I feel guilty at posting as I don't want to make a big thing of it

Please don't feel that way, i'm sure no one thinks you're making a big thing of it feel free to talk if you want to, here or via pm.

and then they return after their passing to another life again as a human form. From very early on in my learning I saw 'spirits' simply as individuals - people as we are - with human form, features and character. Spirits in this example are those who we are still spiritually closest to,

I found this intriguing, did you mean they reincarnate back into human form after death or that they are in the spirit world in human form?

If it is the latter my beliefs differ from yours, spirits are individuals there is no doubting that, with all their personality and character etc still intact, the difference being they have no physical body, though they can appear to us as solid and fully human as you or I and when they do they still have all their features etc.

It is late and i'm tired so I may be misundestanding you, if so please ignore me lol

In Learning from the Light, there are case stories where he discusses how people that are dying stay around until everyone that they want to is able to visit them before they go into the light. Some even stick around a month after passing to make sure others are ok after wards. There was a case story about how overworked the doctor was making himself. His patient made him go out to eat to get a proper rest. While he was out she passed away.

That book is interesting me more and more, i'm going to have to look out for it...

I've heard that too that some will wait to see everyone they want to see.

It's a good book, I highly recommend it. I haven't read his first book. That is the second one he wrote.

Now i've just looked at the cover, I have a suspicion I have it already it's going to take ages to root through all the books here, it's like a library (not all mine I hasten to add)

Yea, I've got some books like that. That when I see them in the book store I go, I'm pretty sure I have that.

Violet wrote:Hi Mac,

All will be revealed in time

I'm a firm believer in this too.

I find, that none of the psychic or mediumistic individuals I encounter have ever found the slightest hint of what happened

You missed a word off that line Mac imo......'yet'

Curious, perhaps, as one might expect it would be seen in my psyche? 'appen not...

I don't think it would necessarily be picked up in that way, I think most mediums pick up on the energies/spirits who draw close to them (the sitter,) at the time of the reading, rather than reading the sitter, if they did get that information, i'm sure it would be a spirit telling or showing them what happened. But I could be wrong...

I feel guilty at posting as I don't want to make a big thing of it

Please don't feel that way, i'm sure no one thinks you're making a big thing of it feel free to talk if you want to, here or via pm.

and then they return after their passing to another life again as a human form. From very early on in my learning I saw 'spirits' simply as individuals - people as we are - with human form, features and character. Spirits in this example are those who we are still spiritually closest to,

I found this intriguing, did you mean they reincarnate back into human form after death or that they are in the spirit world in human form?

If it is the latter my beliefs differ from yours, spirits are individuals there is no doubting that, with all their personality and character etc still intact, the difference being they have no physical body, though they can appear to us as solid and fully human as you or I and when they do they still have all their features etc.

It is late and i'm tired so I may be misundestanding you, if so please ignore me lol

"You missed a word off that line Mac imo......'yet' I'll try to be patient...

"I think most mediums pick up on the energies/spirits who draw close to
them (the sitter,) at the time of the reading, rather than reading the
sitter, if they did get that information, i'm sure it would be a spirit
telling or showing them what happened. But I could be wrong..." I agree with you that's how it should be but as many so-called mediums are primarily psychics (there's me being controversial) I'd expect there would be something indelible in my psyche for them to spot - but, then, I'm not a psychic so mebbe I've got that wrong?


"I found this intriguing, did you mean they reincarnate back into human
form after death or that they are in the spirit world in human form?,If it is the latter my beliefs differ from yours, spirits
are
individuals there is no doubting that, with all their personality and
character etc still intact, the difference being they have no physical
body, though they can appear to us as solid and fully human as
you or I and when they do they still have all their features etc."

Perhaps it's just a slight difference of interpretation..... I see - as you do - individuals with personality and character initially unchanged after passing. As for a physical body, (again as you suggest) theirs is as solid and fully human to them as ours is to us - initially. But not simply in how they appear to us. Put differently, they have bodies which are tangible and solid to them rather than diaphenous as we often see them portrayed in movies etc. It's not to be forgotten, though, that the undoubted solidity is in a dimension where the scientific laws are wholly different to those in our physical world - nonetheless they remain solid.....initially

What drives me nuts (oh yes I can admit it!) is when folks refer to 'spirits' as if they're somehow wholly different beings, like they're beings which no longer can be related to the human form they once were (staying away for now from the aspect that some 'spirits' have never had corporeal existences) I put this down to the misunderstanding - lack of understanding - of the life/death/survival/spiritual progression cycle we're all involved in.....

That's a shame as so many are muddled about issues which could be much simpler for them to follow given the right help in the first place - guess that's just life though?

innerlight wrote:In Learning from the Light, there are case stories where he discusses how people that are dying stay around until everyone that they want to is able to visit them before they go into the light. Some even stick around a month after passing to make sure others are ok after wards. There was a case story about how overworked the doctor was making himself. His patient made him go out to eat to get a proper rest. While he was out she passed away.

Let's not forget that the process of "going into the light" doesn't automatically put some great 'distance' between them and us (I realise that 'distance' is a poor word but you get my meaning....) 'Sticking around' is more a mental process than a physical one.

As time passes after one's leaving this plane (yes I know time isn't the same but those recently passed remain aware of it 'for a time') the mental/emotional focus changes from awareness of, and possibly continuing attraction to, the old physical dimension to that of increasing awareness of, and developing interest in, the new one.

In time the old is replaced by the new environment and the individual's interest in the world they have left diminishes. That probably explains why sometimes seekers may not get to hear from those they hope to hear from through mediumship.

At other times those who have passed over are so attached to the old world, to family etc. that they 'stick around' them for much, much longer or re-visit them to keep track on what is happening in their old world.....

Let's not forget that the process of "going into the light" doesn't automatically put some great 'distance' between them and us (I realise that 'distance' is a poor word but you get my meaning....) 'Sticking around' is more a mental process than a physical one.

When asked in that book of where this place was, or where the light was coming from. They all remarked that it originate from within them. With that in mind it could be possible then that they don't really go that far after dying. I have even heard talk that the spirit plane is only 3 feet above this world. Which is why they say Earth is so vital to the spirit world.

I should of been more clearer with my terminology so as to not confuse people. When I said, "going into the light" I was saying a more polite way of passing over. I was not talking about going back to source right away, or heaven, whatever terminology you are most familiar with. For some spirits there is a little bit of hesitation before they return to spirit after they pass. Usually becuase of fear, or because of wanting to stick around with family. One case in that book a person returned from passing because the mom was too attached and grief struck to let go of them thus chainging them temporarily to that body they were in the process of departing. So a soul could stick around after leaving their mortal bodies until they return to source, or "go into the light" whatever you want to call it.

What was interesting in the book was that everyone had their life reviews before they passed. Instead of what I have heard to be otherwise that you have your review after passing. They also said that being with spirit and communing with them would be weeks at a time, yet in truth it was very short in our plane of usually a couple hours if that.

innerlight wrote:Let's not forget that the process of "going into the light" doesn't automatically put some great 'distance' between them and us (I realise that 'distance' is a poor word but you get my meaning....) 'Sticking around' is more a mental process than a physical one.

When asked in that book of where this place was, or where the light was coming from. They all remarked that it originate from within them. With that in mind it could be possible then that they don't really go that far after dying. I have even heard talk that the spirit plane is only 3 feet above this world. Which is why they say Earth is so vital to the spirit world.

I should of been more clearer with my terminology so as to not confuse people. When I said, "going into the light" I was saying a more polite way of passing over. I was not talking about going back to source right away, or heaven, whatever terminology you are most familiar with. For some spirits there is a little bit of hesitation before they return to spirit after they pass. Usually becuase of fear, or because of wanting to stick around with family. One case in that book a person returned from passing because the mom was too attached and grief struck to let go of them thus chainging them temporarily to that body they were in the process of departing. So a soul could stick around after leaving their mortal bodies until they return to source, or "go into the light" whatever you want to call it.

What was interesting in the book was that everyone had their life reviews before they passed. Instead of what I have heard to be otherwise that you have your review after passing. They also said that being with spirit and communing with them would be weeks at a time, yet in truth it was very short in our plane of usually a couple hours if that.

I think the spirit world exists in between these atoms we have in and around us. That is why the spirit is within us. Just at a different frequency and form. This is assuming that spiritual energies will want to be around us at this time. I’m sure as a parent, I will want to see and protect my children. I will be an Angel for those I love. There is enough room to have the entire human race that ever existed and still have room for other things on this planet, assuming we are going to spend it hear. Flying will be no problem; gravity is just another physical form. Of course without the human body and its needs, what size, makes no difference. It could be that the spirit is as small a pea, or as large as a planet! Size, as I found out with Jill Taylers experience with nirvana, is irrelevant.

Sorry for the sidetrack innerlight and mac, it is MHO of course, and those that had a NDE.

innerlight wrote:Let's not forget that the process of "going into the light" doesn't automatically put some great 'distance' between them and us (I realise that 'distance' is a poor word but you get my meaning....) 'Sticking around' is more a mental process than a physical one.

When asked in that book of where this place was, or where the light was coming from. They all remarked that it originate from within them. With that in mind it could be possible then that they don't really go that far after dying. I have even heard talk that the spirit plane is only 3 feet above this world. Which is why they say Earth is so vital to the spirit world.

I should of been more clearer with my terminology so as to not confuse people. When I said, "going into the light" I was saying a more polite way of passing over. I was not talking about going back to source right away, or heaven, whatever terminology you are most familiar with. For some spirits there is a little bit of hesitation before they return to spirit after they pass. Usually becuase of fear, or because of wanting to stick around with family. One case in that book a person returned from passing because the mom was too attached and grief struck to let go of them thus chainging them temporarily to that body they were in the process of departing. So a soul could stick around after leaving their mortal bodies until they return to source, or "go into the light" whatever you want to call it.

What was interesting in the book was that everyone had their life reviews before they passed. Instead of what I have heard to be otherwise that you have your review after passing. They also said that being with spirit and communing with them would be weeks at a time, yet in truth it was very short in our plane of usually a couple hours if that.

There is yet more ambiguity in terminology. When I say 'passing' or 'passing over' what I imply is the cessation of physical life - the severing of the so-called silver cord as often described. The location after this 'passing' is other than the physical - trying to differentiate between returning 'to spirit' and 'hanging around' seems more a matter of activity rather than location. An individual may wish to stay 'close' to the physical even having ceased her/his physical life but effectively is 'in spirit' because of the earlier defined severing of the 'silver cord.' I realise such a term, or definition, may not be familiar to some or many using this thread.

Returning to 'heaven' or the source is an issue far removed from anything we're discussing here inasmuch as we'd then have to define what/where heaven or source is. In terms of locating the so-called spirit world, distance is effectively meaningless. All dimensions interpenetrate and occupy the same 'space' albeit they are resonating at wholly different frequencies which do not interfere, interact with or impact upon one other. Those living within each level are largely oblivious of others in different levels (save for the sensitives who are able to slightly detect them) Kinda like radio, TV and light waves plus all the various other waves and states - all are occupying the same 'volume' without interference.

I think that our physical Earth is important for other reasons, these being related to its original design purpose. Information is sketchy but suggests that it is a highly attractive place in which to experience uniquely special experiences. It was designed for that purpose and may well be meeting, or exceeding, the hopes and expectations of the designers. (that's purely my personal view based on the little I've gleaned) Because of its uniqueness it enhances and accelerates spiritual growth.

Extrapolating that principle, it can also provide stimuli for growth even of those not currently incarnate. For example it's been reported that scientists 'in spirit' work on problems found in the physical, in turn inspiring incarnate scientists in their own endeavours.

As a final comment, the issue of life review after, before or during passing makes little chronological sense to me. I have read little clear guidance on timing but I think it's fair to say that review occurs at some point after our death - our passing over - and when that happens is largely irrelevant.

The spirit-side helpers are there to help an individual understand their personal review and my own view is that it takes place at a time appropriate for a particular individual. I've never learned of there being any pressing need for it to be conducted quickly and in the case of individuals passing over through prolonged, debilitating illness or traumatic injury etc. it's almost inevitable that the review will take place after any necessary recovery/rehabilitation period.

I'm a great advocate of books but where such situations as """ ..... everyone had their life
reviews before they passed." described are reported, I am concerned about personal bias or colouration somewhere along the line.

Would it not be logical to learn that there is variation in terms of life reviews, rather than all being carried out at the same, early stage? Are we not such widely varying characters that one single procedure, at one particular time, is hardly likely to be the case?

Mac, I only have a few minutes just now, but I get what you said now and it would make total sense if people who died remained pretty much as they are here on earth intitially, it would be a tremendous shock to arrive over there otherwise, i'm looking forward to catching up with all the other posts in here later.