What if there was no afterlife?

First topic message reminder :

Suppose someone proved there was no afterlife how would this affect you, I don't mean regarding your beliefs as such, but would it make you more fearful of death?

Joanie wrote:

mac wrote:

Joanie wrote:Many apoligies to other members.
Mac and I know a site where 'quotes' are not allowed which is rather awkward if one member wishes to reply to a certain post by another.

End of subject.
Joanie x

quite!

A woman always has the last word.

not always....

I've heard it said that people who can see or communicate with spirits are more advanced as regards soul progress than those who can't. All I'm doing is questioning that idea. Credulity and delusion can have the same effect.It's known that people who suffer from Temporal Lobe Epilepsy, have more spiritual experiences than those who don't. I like to look at the subject from all angles.

I'll get back to you, Joanie, re my books. There are so many of them that it'll be a major task to look them out .
One author who springs to mind is Anthony Peake.Have you heard of him? I've read 2 of his books. He has a 3rd one
coming out soon.You'll find them on Amazon.

Viking wrote:I've heard it said that people who can see or communicate with spirits are more advanced as regards soul progress than those who can't. All I'm doing is questioning that idea. Credulity and delusion can have the same effect.It's known that people who suffer from Temporal Lobe Epilepsy, have more spiritual experiences than those who don't. I like to look at the subject from all angles.

Good idea imo to question that idea. I don't believe that's true at all! That's like saying someone who can walk has a soul that's more advanced that someone who is disabled in some way. Someone who is sensitive and "hippy-dippy" in this life may be ultra-conservative and only believe what's in their hand in the next life.

Just from throwing thoughts around in my own mind, I'm inclined to believe that we're all more or less at the same soul level, but perhaps some have more experience in certain things than other.

Viking wrote:I've heard it said that people who can see or communicate with spirits are more advanced as regards soul progress than those who can't. All I'm doing is questioning that idea. Credulity and delusion can have the same effect.It's known that people who suffer from Temporal Lobe Epilepsy, have more spiritual experiences than those who don't. I like to look at the subject from all angles.

I'll get back to you, Joanie, re my books. There are so many of them that it'll be a major task to look them out .
One author who springs to mind is Anthony Peake.Have you heard of him? I've read 2 of his books. He has a 3rd one
coming out soon.You'll find them on Amazon.

Great Viking,really appreciate that thought.
Will remember the name,Anthony Peake.
That's all I need,I have a link from Abe's books,where I order any spirit books.

Joanie

"I've heard it said that people who can see or communicate with spirits
are more advanced as regards soul progress than those who can't. All I'm
doing is questioning that idea. Credulity and delusion can have the
same effect.It's known that people who suffer from Temporal Lobe
Epilepsy, have more spiritual experiences than those who don't. I like
to look at the subject from all angles."

I agree with that approach. I'm a regular subscriber to 'Scientific American Mind' and use that as a springboard for questioning many of the more worthy ideas I read on website forums.

A recent piece about psilocybin experiments resulted in some deep, seemingly-spiritual experiences for the participants. As we register most of our experiences through our physical sensors, interference with them occasioned by illness or drugs, for example, can lead to experiences somewhat similar to those reported by 'regular' people.

It doesn't make spiritual experiences any less genuine but it's always wise to consider whether outside influences may be affecting outcomes.

"Is that a good source for such books, Joanie? I'm always interested for passing on to others...

mac wrote:"I've heard it said that people who can see or communicate with spirits
are more advanced as regards soul progress than those who can't. All I'm
doing is questioning that idea. Credulity and delusion can have the
same effect.It's known that people who suffer from Temporal Lobe
Epilepsy, have more spiritual experiences than those who don't. I like
to look at the subject from all angles."

I agree with that approach. I'm a regular subscriber to 'Scientific American Mind' and use that as a springboard for questioning many of the more worthy ideas I read on website forums.

A recent piece about psilocybin experiments resulted in some deep, seemingly-spiritual experiences for the participants. As we register most of our experiences through our physical sensors, interference with them occasioned by illness or drugs, for example, can lead to experiences somewhat similar to those reported by 'regular' people.

It doesn't make spiritual experiences any less genuine but it's always wise to consider whether outside influences may be affecting outcomes.

Funny you should mention that,Mac. We used to have a member on one site who wouldn't admit it but was seriously thought to be on drugs.He used to give the best messages of the lot,from spirit and everyone of those messages was accepted.

mac wrote:"Is that a good source for such books, Joanie? I'm always interested for passing on to others...

Will send you the link later,Mac. Reasonable prices and quick delivery.

"I've heard it said that people who can see or communicate with spirits
are more advanced as regards soul progress than those who can't. All I'm
doing is questioning that idea."

I agree with questioning such claims although as we don't have any other explanations to refute the statement, it could be valid.

Looking at this wider implications, we actually don't have a clue why folks are healers, psychics, mediums or channellers come to that.

And we don't have any clue whether one individual is any more spiritually evolved than the next in the first place - as Kaere suggests.

Joanie wrote:

mac wrote:"I've heard it said that people who can see or communicate with spirits
are more advanced as regards soul progress than those who can't. All I'm
doing is questioning that idea. Credulity and delusion can have the
same effect.It's known that people who suffer from Temporal Lobe
Epilepsy, have more spiritual experiences than those who don't. I like
to look at the subject from all angles."

I agree with that approach. I'm a regular subscriber to 'Scientific American Mind' and use that as a springboard for questioning many of the more worthy ideas I read on website forums.

A recent piece about psilocybin experiments resulted in some deep, seemingly-spiritual experiences for the participants. As we register most of our experiences through our physical sensors, interference with them occasioned by illness or drugs, for example, can lead to experiences somewhat similar to those reported by 'regular' people.

It doesn't make spiritual experiences any less genuine but it's always wise to consider whether outside influences may be affecting outcomes.

Funny you should mention that,Mac. We used to have a member on one site who wouldn't admit it but was seriously thought to be on drugs.He used to give the best messages of the lot,from spirit and everyone of those messages was accepted.

Hallucinogens were loved for their mystical effects back in the 60s and maybe even before for those who knew about 'em.

They can be dangerous but, then, what drugs can't? Even humble aspirin and paracetamol (acetominophen) are dangerous or deadly at fairly low levels.

Maybe certain hallucinogens remove the block which ordinarily prevents us from using our brain to the full?

I have sent the info off to you,Mac.
Do you know that Morphine is one of the worst drugs for causing delusions?
When Ken was diagnosed with cancer,he was put on a regulated drip.
He fought it,saying he didn't want it. When In Korea,they were given so many ampules of Morphine,to be taken in the event of being seriously wounded.
He was in the latter stages of war and used one for the pain.
He reckoned he had dreams like never before.
So............
Joanie x

Many people are given morphine for pain when they are dying. I hope that doesn't account for the seeing of deceased relatives.

Viking wrote:Many people are given morphine for pain when they are dying. I hope that doesn't account for the seeing of deceased relatives.

Impossible to be sure unless there's a sensitive sitting alongside able to see the same individuals.... But others, not on such strong pain killers, also report much the same thing.

Either way it doesn't hurt the one about to pass over and provided we don't heed only their accounts - or cast doubt on them - it shouldn't over-bolster or shake our conviction either.

Joanie wrote:I have sent the info off to you,Mac.
Do you know that Morphine is one of the worst drugs for causing delusions?
When Ken was diagnosed with cancer,he was put on a regulated drip.
He fought it,saying he didn't want it. When In Korea,they were given so many ampules of Morphine,to be taken in the event of being seriously wounded.
He was in the latter stages of war and used one for the pain.
He reckoned he had dreams like never before.
So............
Joanie x

Yes I'm sure that's true for some worse than others - and as a sensitive he may have had more susceptibility than others.

Needs must when the devil drives though...

I remember Ken rambling a whole lot about nothing,if you know what I mean but it was never anything spiritualist.
Except the bit about seeing himself standing apart from himself.
But that could have meant something else,I still think it was his twin brother.
Joanie x

Joanie wrote:I remember Ken rambling a whole lot about nothing,if you know what I mean but it was never anything spiritualist.
Except the bit about seeing himself standing apart from himself.
But that could have meant something else,I still think it was his twin brother.
Joanie x

"I remember Ken rambling a whole lot about nothing,"

There was a sound reason for his doing that. Those certain individuals who do it regularly on website forums can't use that excuse for their meaningless rambling though!

Viking wrote:Many people are given morphine for pain when they are dying. I hope that doesn't account for the seeing of deceased relatives.

Not everyone on morphine sees deceased relatives. My father-in-law is on morphine and he hasn't reported seeing deceased relatives and he's got enough of them!

zerdini wrote:

Viking wrote:Many people are given morphine for pain when they are dying. I hope that doesn't account for the seeing of deceased relatives.

Not everyone on morphine sees deceased relatives. My father-in-law is on morphine and he hasn't reported seeing deceased relatives and he's got enough of them!

there ya go!

I'm going offline for a sit in the sun for a while to relax and prepare me for the shock of the bill when I collect our truck shortly after it's been serviced!

Catch up with you night-owls later....

mac

zerdini wrote:

Panda wrote:Here me out here, ok? What if there was an after life but there wasn't? This may sound bizarre but I kind of believe in this. Every person is different; they have different personalities, different looks, and different view on fate. For every person... Maybe their after life is different. One person may go to a heaven like place. Maybe some can go to a hell? Hey, for all we know… This can be the after life. I sure hope it's not but we never know.

The Afterlife isn't like that, Panda. There is a substantial amount of evidence on the internet apart from 150 years of evidence chronicled in books. You will also find some detailed on this forum.

How can you be so sure though...? The evidence found was all formed by human minds. No one really knows what the afterlife really is. I don't mean to sound like a know it all or anything but we don't really know what the afterlife is like or isn't like.

Joanie, I've read all the books but they don't convince me as personal evidence would do.

No they won't, because you're reading someone else's experiences or opinions and no matter how good or how true they are it is not your own personal evidence it is theirs

Panda wrote: What if there was an after life but there wasn't? This may sound bizarre but I kind of believe in this. Every person is different; they have different personalities, different looks, and different view on fate. For every person... Maybe their after life is different. One person may go to a heaven like place. Maybe some can go to a hell? Hey, for all we know… This can be the after life.

i really like this post. panda i think you are very smart. we can all experience many different realities. we can know our world, then something can change and then we can feel that everything is totally different than we were sure it was. keep questioning. keep imagining, and don't let anybody tell you you are wrong, just keep an open mind.

mac wrote:

zerdini wrote:

Viking wrote:Many people are given morphine for pain when they are dying. I hope that doesn't account for the seeing of deceased relatives.

Not everyone on morphine sees deceased relatives. My father-in-law is on morphine and he hasn't reported seeing deceased relatives and he's got enough of them!

there ya go!

Like my in laws,they keep coming out of the woodwork.
When they need something.

Violet wrote:

Joanie, I've read all the books but they don't convince me as personal evidence would do.

No they won't, because you're reading someone else's experiences or opinions and no matter how good or how true they are it is not your own personal evidence it is theirs

Absolutely agree Violet. That is what I was trying to get across. I have had the personal evidence which is why I am not interested in theories or opinions unless they are based on a solid bank of evidence.

I don't think any of us can say definitively what's what on the other side. Anyone can write a book about anything they want for example - it doesn't mean it's correct. One person's personal evidence could contradict another person's personal evidence - who's right? The one who presents their evidence the loudest? Say two or three or even four people have the same experience about the afterlife and put it all down and come to the conclusion that they must be right because they all had the same experience and recorded it. Does this mean that the one hundred people on the other side of the planet who've never met or recorded their identical experiences for comparison are wrong?

No one can say what's what on the other side until that day we return to it. And even then the experience could be subjective.