Christian Spiritualism

Native spirit wrote:I agree mac the one snu spiritulist church that i went to the medium had a young boy no older than 7 sat next to herm and she said you should all remember him as he is the next well known medium to come from here,i have never seen or heard from him since, but i didnt like the medium running the place she would tell ppl that they could speak, as soon as one person did she said to the youngster you said that didnt you, the poor lad looked confused,

Namaste

they are only as good - or as bad - as those who run and/or frequent them. It's a sad fact of life that a Spiritualist, just as with any other individual, is primarily a human.

Katiecat wrote:I have never been to a Spiritualist church, or a Christian Spiritualist church, but I would if I found one close to me!

This is something that I really struggle with. My Christian faith and my awakening. I love Jesus, have a great relationship with him. I know he has impacted my life in the past few years when I was going through some rough stuff...and I am very blessed.

However, I love metaphysical stuff, crystals, tarot cards, etc... And I am gifted in this area as well. So, I deal a lot with "Christian guilt."...as all of this is spoken badly of in the Bible. However, I think that the Bible is contradictory in this area. It says not to visit psychics or to follow the stars...But then Jesus was visited by Magi who followed the North Star to find him...So, thats kind of an oxymoron to me. Who do people think that the Magi were? Also, Christian churches preach that we are suppose to be like Jesus, or strive to be like him... Well how are people suppose to do this unless they learn how by learning how to heal, and other metaphysical stuff?

I also believe in reincarnation, which I also think is misinterpreted in the Bible.

So, I suppose a lot of folks consider Christianity and Spiritualism to not mix well. However, sometimes you just have to consider the gray areas of things. What are people like me suppose to do? Totally abandon a faith we have always had, and miss out on everything else? Or try to find a way to blend it all together and see it all under a different light? -which is what I attempt to do.

Left Behind wrote:

Katiecat wrote:I have never been to a Spiritualist church, or a Christian Spiritualist church, but I would if I found one close to me!

This is something that I really struggle with. My Christian faith and my awakening. I love Jesus, have a great relationship with him. I know he has impacted my life in the past few years when I was going through some rough stuff...and I am very blessed.

However, I love metaphysical stuff, crystals, tarot cards, etc... And I am gifted in this area as well. So, I deal a lot with "Christian guilt."...as all of this is spoken badly of in the Bible. However, I think that the Bible is contradictory in this area. It says not to visit psychics or to follow the stars...But then Jesus was visited by Magi who followed the North Star to find him...So, thats kind of an oxymoron to me. Who do people think that the Magi were? Also, Christian churches preach that we are suppose to be like Jesus, or strive to be like him... Well how are people suppose to do this unless they learn how by learning how to heal, and other metaphysical stuff?

I also believe in reincarnation, which I also think is misinterpreted in the Bible.

So, I suppose a lot of folks consider Christianity and Spiritualism to not mix well. However, sometimes you just have to consider the gray areas of things. What are people like me suppose to do? Totally abandon a faith we have always had, and miss out on everything else? Or try to find a way to blend it all together and see it all under a different light? -which is what I attempt to do.

I share a number of your views, KC.

I regard myself as a Christian Spiritualist. I know that many (Hi, Mac! ) regard those terms as antithetical, and to some extent, they are. For example, it would make no sense to contend, as Spiritualists do, that each person is responsible for his own spiritual advancement, while simultaneously contending that "Jesus paid it all": that faith in Jesus forgives all sins and all effects that emanante from them, and that lack of such faith condemns one to eternal punishment.

However, every Christian doesn't hold such a view.

Even before I heard of Spiritualism, I was completely confused by the idea that Jesus died as a "substitutionary sacrifice", to pay some "debt" we all owed. To whom is this "debt" owed? To "Satan"? Is he more powerful than God? Why would an all-wise, all-just, all-merciful God condemn someone to an eternity of horrible suffering? No one could possibly do enough evil in a human lifetime to "deserve" this.

I believe that Jesus did something - something tremendous - for all of us, and that he wants us to live our lives guided by his teaching and example.

I believe that the Christian religion is extremely Spiritualist. What else can it mean, to accept the Bible as "inspired"? Inspired by who or what, if not spirits?

Jim

Ethereal wrote:

Left Behind wrote:

Katiecat wrote:I have never been to a Spiritualist church, or a Christian Spiritualist church, but I would if I found one close to me!

This is something that I really struggle with. My Christian faith and my awakening. I love Jesus, have a great relationship with him. I know he has impacted my life in the past few years when I was going through some rough stuff...and I am very blessed.

However, I love metaphysical stuff, crystals, tarot cards, etc... And I am gifted in this area as well. So, I deal a lot with "Christian guilt."...as all of this is spoken badly of in the Bible. However, I think that the Bible is contradictory in this area. It says not to visit psychics or to follow the stars...But then Jesus was visited by Magi who followed the North Star to find him...So, thats kind of an oxymoron to me. Who do people think that the Magi were? Also, Christian churches preach that we are suppose to be like Jesus, or strive to be like him... Well how are people suppose to do this unless they learn how by learning how to heal, and other metaphysical stuff?

I also believe in reincarnation, which I also think is misinterpreted in the Bible.

So, I suppose a lot of folks consider Christianity and Spiritualism to not mix well. However, sometimes you just have to consider the gray areas of things. What are people like me suppose to do? Totally abandon a faith we have always had, and miss out on everything else? Or try to find a way to blend it all together and see it all under a different light? -which is what I attempt to do.

I share a number of your views, KC.

I regard myself as a Christian Spiritualist. I know that many (Hi, Mac! ) regard those terms as antithetical, and to some extent, they are. For example, it would make no sense to contend, as Spiritualists do, that each person is responsible for his own spiritual advancement, while simultaneously contending that "Jesus paid it all": that faith in Jesus forgives all sins and all effects that emanante from them, and that lack of such faith condemns one to eternal punishment.

However, every Christian doesn't hold such a view.

Even before I heard of Spiritualism, I was completely confused by the idea that Jesus died as a "substitutionary sacrifice", to pay some "debt" we all owed. To whom is this "debt" owed? To "Satan"? Is he more powerful than God? Why would an all-wise, all-just, all-merciful God condemn someone to an eternity of horrible suffering? No one could possibly do enough evil in a human lifetime to "deserve" this.

I believe that Jesus did something - something tremendous - for all of us, and that he wants us to live our lives guided by his teaching and example.

I believe that the Christian religion is extremely Spiritualist. What else can it mean, to accept the Bible as "inspired"? Inspired by who or what, if not spirits?

Jim

Someone asked for a definition of Christian Spiritualism.

I also call myself a Christian Spiritualist. But long before I chose that designation I was a fan of Edgar Cayce books which I had began reading at the age of 14. It was not until I was in my late thirties that I had the opportunity to join a Christian Spiritualist Church. I found the similiarities between the two to be very close to each other especially among those who were in the church when I first joined it. Even so, there were differences between members. The church was guided by the By-Laws and the Declaration of Principles published by original members, which included 7 of the 9 principles of the NSAC, (National Spiritualist Association of Churches), slightly modified forms of the Lyceum and interpretation of Spiritualism. On the issue of Christ being a savior it was not defined, just accepted if you did not bring it up. Of those members who did espouse it, it ranged from accepting Christ as a great teacher, or a savior through blood or through example. (Which is part of the reason I believed people tried to change it, because Christian was not defined. That is an opinion though.) The last one is the one I chose to believe in, that Christ died showing us not to be afraid of death. If we lived a spiritual life, followed the Golden Rule, (As ye would others do unto you, so do ye unto them) and loved God, and your neighbor as well as yourself then you were/are Christian. That each person I meet is a mirror image of myself walking a different path and to love them is to love myself, knowing forgiveness to them and myself leads to that love. By doing so death has no hold over you (I believe in Reincarnation) and fear is the greatest threat to the soul.(Stifling learning, experiance and interaction with others) That Hell is not a place but an attitude and heaven is the greatest truth in knowing ourselves and being free as the result.
While these views were not the views of all others in the church, they were however accepted by those who were there when I joined. Some views I had before I joined and some I acquired before I left. But many did hold similar views and were accepting (not just tolerant) of other views and willing to listen to other views, even if not in agreement. To see what was similar so that communication was possible to understand and love others. This is Christian Spiritualism as I came to know it and eventually try to practice it. But as said before most churches are guided by those who practice their belief system. Quite often that is guided by their past, both current lifetime and past lifetimes, environment, genetic influences, and astrological sojourns.
This by no means is an advocation of the Christian Spiritualist belief system, only my view and how I came to accept it.

Daniel

mac wrote:This is an old topic and I thought we'd just about talked it out.

Anyone who's looked even cursorily at 'traditional' Modern Spiritualism and Christian Spiritualism will have a pretty clear idea of the main differences. These - if memory serves me - have been aired in this thread and elsewhere.
The Original question was what I was addressing. Not the question of what is modern spiritualism.

We Spiritualists have no difficulty in seeing the Nazarene, Jesus, as what he was. What is hard to accept -
and totally unnecessary for a Spiritualist - is the mainstream church's teachings and the need for belief about issues which are poorly dealt with. I'd wager that 'simple Spiritualists' (a category I put myself firmly in) see the Bible as too obscure to have much significance in everyday life. That's the book itself and the way it's used in the Christian faiths that I'm talking about. Spiritualism has no equivalent to the Bible and doesn't need one.
I have found the bible very revelent in aspects of my daily life. But one has to experiment with what is said before one could agree with me. I have no problem with you not believing. Do you have a problem with what I believe? If not why bring it up and try to disregard the original question? As for modern spiritualism not having a bible or needing one. Ok, that's fine with me. But the original question involved an individuals struggle with using and integrating the bible into their lives. And that was what I was answering in part.

Another significant difference is that where you've used a long paragraph to explain what Christian Spiritualism is for you, I'd contend that the few short lines of explanation I use routinely explain what Modern Spiritualism is about for Spiritualists generally.
I used a long paragraph because I was trying to condense 45 years of practicing my belief system into a very short brief. If you chose to use a very short explanation of your life and modern spiritualism that is fine. My life has not been simple, short or generally routine. But it has been about Christian Spiritualism and practicing it. When you have spirit move things that you would consider impossible in your life, then it is no longer routine or simple, and belief and faith begin to take on a whole new meaning.

There's not enough wriggle-room in those sentences to have a personal version of (traditional) Spiritualism. Beyond those fundamentals individuals may progress to levels or depths of understanding which are personal but that's a different issue, just as it would be for any other discipline.
Again the question was not about a personal version of (Traditional) Spiritualism, it was about Christian Spiritualism. And the person was struggling with a personal version of Christian Spiritualism. That is what the individual who gave an answer before me and I was addressing.

It's probably not a significant issue in this topic but there are differences between the US version of Spiritualism and that found in the UK. It's a point I often make when 'speaking' to Americans as it's
caused confusion in the past for me and took a time to reconcile personally.
Actually I am aware that there are differences between Spiritualist churches in the UK and the US. As stated earlier in this forum, there are differences between churches in the SNU and non affiliated churches. There were differences between members of the church that I attended and addressed in my previous post, but there are more similarities than differences. If the answers you gave were too short and simple that others could not understand them, then perhaps sometimes more effort and time is needed to reach out to others.
Additionally, I do not understand why you did not address the original questioner's query and instead concentrated on trying to disparage my answer. It seems to me if your desire was to help this individual find peace with their struggle in their belief system, you would have told them what modern and traditional Spiritualism is.

Daniel

Ethereal wrote:

Left Behind wrote:

Katiecat wrote:I have never been to a Spiritualist church, or a Christian Spiritualist church, but I would if I found one close to me!

This is something that I really struggle with. My Christian faith and my awakening. I love Jesus, have a great relationship with him. I know he has impacted my life in the past few years when I was going through some rough stuff...and I am very blessed.

However, I love metaphysical stuff, crystals, tarot cards, etc... And I am gifted in this area as well. So, I deal a lot with "Christian guilt."...as all of this is spoken badly of in the Bible. However, I think that the Bible is contradictory in this area. It says not to visit psychics or to follow the stars...But then Jesus was visited by Magi who followed the North Star to find him...So, thats kind of an oxymoron to me. Who do people think that the Magi were? Also, Christian churches preach that we are suppose to be like Jesus, or strive to be like him... Well how are people suppose to do this unless they learn how by learning how to heal, and other metaphysical stuff?

I also believe in reincarnation, which I also think is misinterpreted in the Bible.

So, I suppose a lot of folks consider Christianity and Spiritualism to not mix well. However, sometimes you just have to consider the gray areas of things. What are people like me suppose to do? Totally abandon a faith we have always had, and miss out on everything else? Or try to find a way to blend it all together and see it all under a different light? -which is what I attempt to do.

I share a number of your views, KC.

I regard myself as a Christian Spiritualist. I know that many (Hi, Mac! ) regard those terms as antithetical, and to some extent, they are. For example, it would make no sense to contend, as Spiritualists do, that each person is responsible for his own spiritual advancement, while simultaneously contending that "Jesus paid it all": that faith in Jesus forgives all sins and all effects that emanante from them, and that lack of such faith condemns one to eternal punishment.

However, every Christian doesn't hold such a view.

Even before I heard of Spiritualism, I was completely confused by the idea that Jesus died as a "substitutionary sacrifice", to pay some "debt" we all owed. To whom is this "debt" owed? To "Satan"? Is he more powerful than God? Why would an all-wise, all-just, all-merciful God condemn someone to an eternity of horrible suffering? No one could possibly do enough evil in a human lifetime to "deserve" this.

I believe that Jesus did something - something tremendous - for all of us, and that he wants us to live our lives guided by his teaching and example.

I believe that the Christian religion is extremely Spiritualist. What else can it mean, to accept the Bible as "inspired"? Inspired by who or what, if not spirits?

Jim

Someone asked for a definition of Christian Spiritualism.

I also call myself a Christian Spiritualist. But long before I chose that designation I was a fan of Edgar Cayce books which I had began reading at the age of 14. It was not until I was in my late thirties that I had the opportunity to join a Christian Spiritualist Church. I found the similiarities between the two to be very close to each other especially among those who were in the church when I first joined it. Even so, there were differences between members. The church was guided by the By-Laws and the Declaration of Principles published by original members, which included 7 of the 9 principles of the NSAC, (National Spiritualist Association of Churches), slightly modified forms of the Lyceum and interpretation of Spiritualism. On the issue of Christ being a savior it was not defined, just accepted if you did not bring it up. Of those members who did espouse it, it ranged from accepting Christ as a great teacher, or a savior through blood or through example. (Which is part of the reason I believed people tried to change it, because Christian was not defined. That is an opinion though.) The last one is the one I chose to believe in, that Christ died showing us not to be afraid of death. If we lived a spiritual life, followed the Golden Rule, (As ye would others do unto you, so do ye unto them) and loved God, and your neighbor as well as yourself then you were/are Christian. That each person I meet is a mirror image of myself walking a different path and to love them is to love myself, knowing forgiveness to them and myself leads to that love. By doing so death has no hold over you (I believe in Reincarnation) and fear is the greatest threat to the soul.(Stifling learning, experiance and interaction with others) That Hell is not a place but an attitude and heaven is the greatest truth in knowing ourselves and being free as the result.
While these views were not the views of all others in the church, they were however accepted by those who were there when I joined. Some views I had before I joined and some I acquired before I left. But many did hold similar views and were accepting (not just tolerant) of other views and willing to listen to other views, even if not in agreement. To see what was similar so that communication was possible to understand and love others. This is Christian Spiritualism as I came to know it and eventually try to practice it. But as said before most churches are guided by those who practice their belief system. Quite often that is guided by their past, both current lifetime and past lifetimes, environment, genetic influences, and astrological sojourns.
This by no means is an advocation of the Christian Spiritualist belief system, only my view and how I came to accept it.

Daniel

mac wrote:"If the answers you gave
were too short and simple that others could not understand them, then
perhaps sometimes more effort and time is needed to reach out to others."

Let's do this step-by-step, eh? I haven't told you how you should go about what you do and in turn you don't tell me how I should behave - deal? You decide for yourself how much effort and time you deploy and I can do the same for me - deal? Agreed. Just remember that you replied to my comments first, not me to yours.

"Additionally,
I do not understand why you did not address the original questioner's
query and instead concentrated on trying to disparage my answer." I guess you've been looking back a fair way to some earlier part of this thread but if you quote the points you're unhappy about I'll take a look-see to judge whether you personally deserve a response from me about something that didn't involve you - deal? Similarly on your accusation of disparagement except I'll definitely respond to any point you make - deal? If you had read the qoutes I was addressing you would have seen I had not mentioned modern Spiritualism nor had the original questioner and neither did the answer by another individual, just Christian Spiritualism. So why did you bring modern Spiritualism up?

"It seems to me if your desire was to help this individual find peace with
their struggle in their belief system, you would have told them what
modern and traditional Spiritualism is."ditto all the above

Ethereal wrote:

mac wrote:"If the answers you gave
were too short and simple that others could not understand them, then
perhaps sometimes more effort and time is needed to reach out to others."

Let's do this step-by-step, eh? I haven't told you how you should go about what you do and in turn you don't tell me how I should behave - deal? You decide for yourself how much effort and time you deploy and I can do the same for me - deal? Agreed. Just remember that you replied to my comments first, not me to yours.

"Additionally,
I do not understand why you did not address the original questioner's
query and instead concentrated on trying to disparage my answer." I guess you've been looking back a fair way to some earlier part of this thread but if you quote the points you're unhappy about I'll take a look-see to judge whether you personally deserve a response from me about something that didn't involve you - deal? Similarly on your accusation of disparagement except I'll definitely respond to any point you make - deal? If you had read the qoutes I was addressing you would have seen I had not mentioned modern Spiritualism nor had the original questioner and neither did the answer by another individual, just Christian Spiritualism. So why did you bring modern Spiritualism up?

"It seems to me if your desire was to help this individual find peace with
their struggle in their belief system, you would have told them what
modern and traditional Spiritualism is."ditto all the above

Again agreed. You don't make comments on anything I reply on and I will not make comments on anything you comment on. Shall we agree?

Ethereal wrote:No I disagree on that proposal but I'm content that you do whatever is best for yourself.

mac wrote:"Anyone
who's looked even cursorily at 'traditional' Modern Spiritualism and
Christian Spiritualism will have a pretty clear idea of the main
differences.

"The Original question was what
I was addressing. Not the question of what is modern spiritualism."
The original question was Had anyone been to a Christian Spiritualist
Church and what were their feelings. I answered that. So why bring up
modern spiritualism?
These - if memory serves me - have been aired in this thread and elsewhere."
My original answer had nothing to do with comparing modern Spiritualism and Christian Spiritualism. As you said that had already been addressed earlier in this thread and others. So why did you bring it up?

In that case it would have been helpful for you to have copied that original question in for reference (agreed, but since it was at the top of this page, I figured anyone who was going to answer it, would have read the top to see what the question originally was, not assume it was an attack on modern Spiritualism.) but as I've already remarked this is is an old topic and I thought we'd just about talked it out anyway. Well then since my original comment was not on the differences between the two, Modern and Christian Spiritualism why did you bring it up?

I don't see how defining Christian Spiritualism would be hindered by contrasting or comparing it with traditional Spiritualism.

Violet wrote:I went to a Christian Spiritualist church once, I felt very uncomfortable, it didn't feel right somehow and far too 'religious' if that makes sense. Anyone else been to one and what were your feelings?

Joanie wrote:Does it really make a difference whatever is displayed in a spiritualism church?

Unless it is something that is really offensive.

The point of visiting any spiritualist church is to show belief in spiritualism and receiving proof from loved ones that they do exist.

Joanie