The Great Spirit

Before the Europeans and the spread of Christianity, the tribes of what is now North America were largely animistic and had no supreme male deity. From tribe to tribe animistc beliefs varied and many great spirits were recognized. So much of our many diverse cultures and spiritual beliefs have been re-imagined and romanticised by others.

I realize some people are put off whenever one of us touches upon this subject, but sometimes truth can be disappointing to those who have a set way of seeing us.

The Great Spirit.

The Great Spirit is mentioned in the Silver Birch books.

Are we talking about the same subject here?

Joanie

Joanie wrote:The Great Spirit.

The Great Spirit is mentioned in the Silver Birch books.

Are we talking about the same subject here?

Joanie

Are we ? I see the great spirit mentioned a lot, but in the ancient beliefs of my people and those of my friends from other tribes, there is no single supreme male deities, however there are creators, but they were not worshipped as supreme deities.

Oh by the way Joanie, Greetings, I am Wisa'ka, a Shawanese(Shawnee). It is good to meet you.

Good to meet you too.

In Spiritualism,the Great Spirit is known as the only 'God' in the spirit world.

There is only one religion there and the highest being of all.

If you were to search on the net,look up Silver Birch.

Very interesting.

Joanie

I've some friends in the area who are originally from Qualla and they have heard of this Silver Birch, but do not hold him in the same high regards as others seem to do. The great spirit misconception ? As far as many of us are concerned, early on non-Indians derived this interpretation of the great spirit from their lack of understanding and their non-fluency of our languages when we attempted to speak about our beliefs, which was not often as such information was guarded. In their endeavor to connect our spirituality with a one god faith they assumed or re-imagined our beliefs as similar to what they worshipped. Today there are even some Indians who go along with the supreme great spirit religion for various reasons.

I really don't think that the Cherokee were the tribe we know now, some 3000 years ago. I do happen to know a little about the Iroquoian people and their migrations. We have had both good and not so good relations with the Haudenosaunee and their kin for a very long time. The Cherokee traditionalists I know do not acknowledge a single great spirit either. All of the spirit world is powerful.

'The Great Spirit' I am talking about,Wisa'ka is a different thing altogether.

He is the highest of the highest.

Silver Birch would explain it all.

Very interesting reading.

Wisa'ka



First, allow me to welcome you to the forum. It is very nice to meet you.



I agree, and most people tend to forget, that, in the old way, there was not one God. There were many. In some teachings, there were almost too many too count. Individual gods took care of a myriad of things which the peoples encountered in their lives. It was not until much later that the concept of the 'one God' came about. The old way has all but been forgotten....pushed aside by the new teachings.

In Neolithic Britain, there was one overall deity generally referred to as the Great Mother. Figurines have been found at the edge of what was the ice-cap in the last Ice Age [say, 12000 BC] which suggest that the worship was wide-spread. There are cave paintings of a Horned Being dating from the Neolithic also.
By and large though, the day-to-day spiritual "business" was conducted through nature spirits.

norseman wrote:In Neolithic Britain, there was one overall deity generally referred to as the Great Mother. Figurines have been found at the edge of what was the ice-cap in the last Ice Age [say, 12000 BC] which suggest that the worship was wide-spread. There are cave paintings of a Horned Being dating from the Neolithic also.
By and large though, the day-to-day spiritual "business" was conducted through nature spirits.

Yes I'm familiar with the various cave paintings depicting shamans with antler headdresses and clad in stag hide, then there is the old antlered deity Cernunnous. Many obese earth mother figurines have been found across the eastern hemisphere as well. Here in America we had only anthropomorphised some spirits that usually appeared in a particular animal form. But still aside from a few obscure tribes, there was no single all powerful deity. Lumping it all into a single great spirit would have us forget much of our traditional way of life. Have us forget our own ancestor spirits.

1antique wrote:Wisa'ka



First, allow me to welcome you to the forum. It is very nice to meet you.



I agree, and most people tend to forget, that, in the old way, there was not one God. There were many. In some teachings, there were almost too many too count. Individual gods took care of a myriad of things which the peoples encountered in their lives. It was not until much later that the concept of the 'one God' came about. The old way has all but been forgotten....pushed aside by the new teachings.

My thanks for your welcome and greetings.

Upon hearing or seeing the word god, I tend to think of worship, where the spirits are usually contended with in various manners. They are shown great respect either out admiration or out of caution. A coexistence if you will. Of course some have to be appeased in some manner or other.

The moody ones ?The angry ones ? The malefic ones ?

The hungry ones ?

Think of a lone fisherman throwing his prize catch into the jaws of an alligator instead of himself.

Joanie wrote:'The Great Spirit' I am talking about,Wisa'ka is a different thing altogether.

He is the highest of the highest.

Silver Birch would explain it all.

Very interesting reading.

I mean no disrespect, but isn't this Silver Birch someone that a English man made claims of channeling ? My NDN family and friends have no knowledge of Silver Birch as being any holy man, but what would an American Indian know, eh ?

I suggest you or anyone go to some American Indian forums and asked them about Silver Birch.

Oh by the way, Joanie, Nashitheki is the Lenape-Shawano way of saying Wisa'ka.

Wisa'ka wrote:
Lumping it all into a single great spirit would have us forget much of our traditional way of life. Have us forget our own ancestor spirits.

We are all part of the one Great Spirit as spiritual beings, we are all separate spirits as human beings, we all have choice, we all have ancestors spirits, all the ancestor's were just as human as you and me, we all have to forget we were ever human to return to our natural state, how far back does anyone's traditional way of life go ?, living in caves ? raiding our neighbouring tribe to abduct some slaves ? how much can you allow yourself to change, holding onto the past only serves to obscure NOW.
P
[url=http://www.paulwilliams.ie/GettingToKnow.html [/url]

Nashitheki wrote:

Joanie wrote:'The Great Spirit' I am talking about,Wisa'ka is a different thing altogether.

He is the highest of the highest.

Silver Birch would explain it all.

Very interesting reading.

I mean no disrespect, but isn't this Silver Birch someone that a English man made claims of channeling ? My NDN family and friends have no knowledge of Silver Birch as being any holy man, but what would an American Indian know, eh ?

I suggest you or anyone go to some American Indian forums and asked them about Silver Birch.

Oh by the way, Joanie, Nashitheki is the Lenape-Shawano way of saying Wisa'ka.

For convenience during communication, Silver Birch took the form of a tribal member but always stressed that when incarnate he had never been part of any such tribes. He was not a "holy man" (to use your words) but came to the physical dimension to offer teachings about life 'in-spirit' and about death and our survival of it. His words were not channeled but were conveyed through the trance mediumship of his 'instrument' (as SB called him) Maurice Barbanell for around 20 years.

Doubtless there are spiritual leaders to whom you turn for guidance in
just the same way that Spiritualists heed their own teachers and guides. Neither our Silver Birch nor your native tribespeople have any monopoly on the truth and information reaches our world in many and various ways.

I hope this helps you understand Silver Birch a little?

Nashitheki wrote:

Joanie wrote:'The Great Spirit' I am talking about,Wisa'ka is a different thing altogether.

He is the highest of the highest.

Silver Birch would explain it all.

Very interesting reading.

I mean no disrespect, but isn't this Silver Birch someone that a English man made claims of channeling ? My NDN family and friends have no knowledge of Silver Birch as being any holy man, but what would an American Indian know, eh ?

I suggest you or anyone go to some American Indian forums and asked them about Silver Birch.

Oh by the way, Joanie, Nashitheki is the Lenape-Shawano way of saying Wisa'ka.

Thank you for that information. I have a friend on here who is very interested in Native American sites. She is also a member of one though is UK born,a lovely lady and well versed in Native American history. It is not that long ago that she told me exactly what you have just recounted to me now.

Silver Birch is not accepted as known in the Native American history.

He was channelled by a well known English medium some years ago.

He was asked many questions about conditions in the after life and gave answers to the best of his ability. A very wise old man of approx 2000 to 3000 years old.

If you are interested in reading about him,enter 'Silver Birch,after life' in the internet.

Nice talking with you.

Joanie

It's historically accurate to say that Silver Birch's words were conveyed via trance mediumship as that's how the method was described at the time. Trance and other forms of mediumship are widely found in Spiritualism.

Channelling is a recent term appearing to relate to a certain style of communication. It may or may not be similar to trance mediumship and is a term often - but not exclusively - used in North America.

Hello All- an interesting thread!

For my part I find any organised religeous organisation more likely to put me off than attract me.

I believe in a spirit world where spirit from time to time make contact with us. What we call these spirit contacts is pure semantics! God, Divine Spirit, Great Spirit etc etc we are all talking about the same thing. But we all contact the spirit world in different ways and at different depths and for different needs.

PPLLnL to you all

Peter

Well,said Peter.

Thank you.

Joanie

Nashitheki wrote:

Joanie wrote:'The Great Spirit' I am talking about,Wisa'ka is a different thing altogether.

He is the highest of the highest.

Silver Birch would explain it all.

Very interesting reading.

I mean no disrespect, but isn't this Silver Birch someone that a English man made claims of channeling ? My NDN family and friends have no knowledge of Silver Birch as being any holy man, but what would an American Indian know, eh ?

I suggest you or anyone go to some American Indian forums and asked them about Silver Birch.

Oh by the way, Joanie, Nashitheki is the Lenape-Shawano way of saying Wisa'ka.

Thank you for a very interesting talk and explaining about your views,I always like to hear others opinions and different ideas or customs.

I lived a good few years in Australia. My husband lived up in Queensland and studied the Aboriginal race,lived with them and received a wonderful gift from them before he came back to the UK.

A beautiful picture which was painted on the bark of an old tree.

He treasured that for many years.

I have two paintings of the Aboriginals,one of a lone boy standing on his own and the other of an Aboriginal gathering under an old oak tree.

They are now over 50 years old.

Happy memories of wonderful years in Oz.

Joanie

gilly wrote:Hello All- an interesting thread!

For my part I find any organised religeous organisation more likely to put me off than attract me.

I believe in a spirit world where spirit from time to time make contact with us. What we call these spirit contacts is pure semantics! God, Divine Spirit, Great Spirit etc etc we are all talking about the same thing. But we all contact the spirit world in different ways and at different depths and for different needs.

PPLLnL to you all

Peter

Did Kokumthena create the Englishmakee as well ?