If you believe we choose our next life..

Why do some choose to return to become murderers and such? I'm sure that in the more enlightened state of spirit, you wouldn't want to do anything like that, this is yet another reason the whole reincarnation thing bothers me.

It's a tricky one, the whole concept. I read somewhere (I think it was the Kryon parables book) that murderers and their victims make the decision together before incarnating. Because we're all one consciousness, souls incarnate in order to feed the experience bank of the consciousness. A soul might need to experience the whole murder thing (maybe the rage, the uncontrollable impulse, the feelings of guilt afterwards, the penance in jail, etc)...and another soul agrees to be the victim out of love for the first soul. The same idea goes for babies who die young or aren't born, people who are killed in war, car accidents, etc. That they chose to leave this earth early so that the survivors could experience what they need to.

I don't know if I agree or even what I think about that idea. Sometimes it seems comforting, like there is no senseless death or loss...but then I wonder, hasn't there been enough soul experiencing of war and death and killing? If that super-consciousness knows everything already, then why the need to experience anything?

I think I've complicated your topic

No, you haven't Kaere you just made it ten times more interesting, that theory actually would make sense and I agree if that is the truth of it it would be massively comforting for all. I've never heard that particular theory before

Sorry to keep using the analogy of a car, but.....

We all keep thinking that the physical body is of some great importance to spirit, when, in actuality, it is nothing more than a vehicle that carries it along during it's journey.

Following that line of thought, why would spirit consider it a big deal if the vehicle broke down, got wrecked, or was destroyed?....I mean, it IS just a vehicle, you know. Spirit is not affected by it being destroyed...other than having to go out and get another to continue the journey with.....

1antique wrote:Sorry to keep using the analogy of a car, but.....

We all keep thinking that the physical body is of some great importance to spirit, when, in actuality, it is nothing more than a vehicle that carries it along during it's journey.

Following that line of thought, why would spirit consider it a big deal if the vehicle broke down, got wrecked, or was destroyed?....I mean, it IS just a vehicle, you know. Spirit is not affected by it being destroyed...other than having to go out and get another to continue the journey with.....

Hi Allen, I know the body is only a vehicle for the spirit, but following your train of thought there, if that's the case why do they bother to send us healing etc. I believe spirits (on the whole) care about the living bodies on the earth plane.

Have you ever wondered WHY healing was sent? Was it sent strictly to heal the PHYSICAL body, or was it sent as a source of teaching and/or learning for those in the physical?

I think it's sent to heal the physical body and the spirit but there is probably an element of learning in there too.

Violet wrote:Why do some choose to return to become murderers and such? I'm sure that in the more enlightened state of spirit, you wouldn't want to do anything like that, this is yet another reason the whole reincarnation thing bothers me.

Perhaps it's to even out the balance of things. If there was reincarnation and picking a murder as one of your next life. It would guarantee yourself another trip back to earth.

1antique wrote:Sorry to keep using the analogy of a car, but.....

We all keep thinking that the physical body is of some great importance to spirit, when, in actuality, it is nothing more than a vehicle that carries it along during it's journey.

Following that line of thought, why would spirit consider it a big deal if the vehicle broke down, got wrecked, or was destroyed?....I mean, it IS just a vehicle, you know. Spirit is not affected by it being destroyed...other than having to go out and get another to continue the journey with.....

Yes, but it's in these thoughts that can be dangerous. If we look at it that the body means nothing. Then we can live a life doing nothing. We can destroy the planet, we can destroy others. We can do anything. Who would really care? It means nothing.

Then we can also say.. Well doesn't matter I can come back and correct my errors next life. No biggie.

With that in mind we have to look at things needing some sort of balance, or order. Or it would be nothing but chaos.

Perhaps the roles in life are like a bag of pic'n'mix and when we get to decide which role to play in the next incarnation we're not really that bothered.

Would I prefer to be murdered and thus die a usually quick death, or to live through years of suffering from disease or handicap?
Would I choose to be the murderer or the victim? Who of the two is worst off?

Would I choose to be famous? Celebrities may be financially rich, but what about psychologically? They often can't go out in peace and live reclusive lives in the main, though what we see of them is mostly sparkles and parties and what we call 'freedom', though it is anything but that.

When we make our choice perhaps we see the whole picture. That the murderer also has a family, and perhaps even a loving one who will be afflicted with pain and horror when they discover the killer in their midst. The ripple effect: murderer and victim both have family, friends, acquaintances and colleagues, who will all have their life changed in some way because of the murder, as will the police and justice system and anyone at all involved in the affair or who reads or hears about it. The repercussions are enormous.

It is the same for any action in life, good or bad, we are all interlinked. Isn't it said that any of us is only 5 people away from knowing any famous person, be it a showbusiness celebrity or the president of the USA or even Queen Elizabeth II? Maybe next time one of these will be a murderer, or a victim... or just an ordinary person plodding through life as best they can while attempting to make ends meet.

We all have roles to play, and as Shakespeare said: "All the world's a stage..." we're all just players and whatever role we ourselves play in this lifetime it may be the opposite next time around. Not a comforting thought perhaps, but on the other hand it might be reassuring.

Innerlight said:

Yes, but it's in these thoughts that can be dangerous. If we look at it that the body means nothing. Then we can live a life doing nothing. We can destroy the planet, we can destroy others. We can do anything. Who would really care? It means nothing.

Then we can also say.. Well doesn't matter I can come back and correct my errors next life. No biggie.

With that in mind we have to look at things needing some sort of balance, or order. Or it would be nothing but chaos.

What you say is true. That is a dangerous attitude that can be formed (actually, look around the world...that IS the attitude, it seems). But, with that attitude, there would be very little growth. Little teaching or learning. Or, would there?

Right now we are destroying our planet through pollution, wars, over-population, etc. So many do not care as long as they are on the receiving end of the riches. And yet, with all of this destruction going on there IS learning happening. We are learning that we cannot continue to act the way that we are. We are learning that we MUST take care of the world around us. We are learning that we must help those less fortunate than us.

Yes, we have learned to destroy. We have learned all about chaos. But, through it all, we have learned to Love and to create. We have learned that we must do better....not for ourselves, but for those who follow. We must selflessly act to protect and help our future generations.

Yes, we have created chaos, but, from the ashes will rise a better humanity because we HAVE learned.

I'm not disagreeing with what you had said. There is a lot of learning that can happen in what we do, and what goes on around us. In some cases it takes the "evil" for us to see something we don't like, and what we need to do to not have that happen again. Most see Hitler as just a monster. Yet, none hardly see that he taught us a valuable lesson in compassion for others, and to know that we can treat each other better, and what power can do to some if not checked.

what is "murder" to a young soul? an idea! to say we choose is not strictly correct, it is accordance with what you know and are attracted to that you will choose. you would do well to read garry lynch's "struck by lightning" it is a really beautiful book by a man whose daughter was murdered. for some unknown reason, it is a famous case. everyone knows of, mentions "anita cobby" when murder comes up.

It makes me feel like we are just in a very complex painful game, that just appeases ourselves. Why do I feel tired of it.




From the song "The Balance"

And he thought of those he angered,
For he was not a violent man,
And he thought of those he hurt
For he was not a cruel man
And he thought of those he frightened
For he was not an evil man,
And he understood.
He understood himself.

Upon this he saw that when he was of anger or knew hurt or felt fear,
It was because he was not understanding,
And he learned, compassion.

And with his eye of compassion.
He saw his enemies like unto himself,
And he learned love.
Then, he was answered.

Violet wrote:Why do some choose to return to become murderers and such? I'm sure that in the more enlightened state of spirit, you wouldn't want to do anything like that, this is yet another reason the whole reincarnation thing bothers me.

Personally, I believe murderers or people who inflict untold suffering onto another do so because they have chosen - by use of their free will - to pursue that path whilst living in the physical world. Much in the same way as 'heads of state' start wars for reasons none other than satisfying their ego or, purely for self-aggrandisement.

I can't see how a loving God would want to cause suffering to any one person, it doesn't make sense to me, anyhow. I believe this may have been one reason that Jesus came to our world so He could inspire us and help show us the way. Unfortunately some failed to pay attention then and most.

As for re incarnation, I don't believe 'we' - the personality we now have - comes back down to earth. It's more than likely a separate facet of our Soul that incarnates whilst we - the personality - continues to have all eternity to further evolve and progress.

skye wrote:

Violet wrote:Why do some choose to return to become murderers and such? I'm sure that in the more enlightened state of spirit, you wouldn't want to do anything like that, this is yet another reason the whole reincarnation thing bothers me.

Personally, I believe murderers or people who inflict untold suffering onto another do so because they have chosen - by use of their free will - to pursue that path whilst living in the physical world. Much in the same way as 'heads of state' start wars for reasons none other than satisfying their ego or, purely for self-aggrandisement.

I can't see how a loving God would want to cause suffering to any one person, it doesn't make sense to me, anyhow. I believe this may have been one reason that Jesus came to our world so He could inspire us and help show us the way. Unfortunately some failed to pay attention then and continue to do so today.

As for re incarnation, I don't believe 'we' - the personality we now have - comes back down to earth. It's more than likely a separate facet of our Soul that incarnates whilst we - the personality - continues to have all eternity to further evolve and progress.

My God skye you are so bright! I am proud to know you.

Although 'bright' isn't a word I would have used AT, I do thank you for the compliment.

i quite agree skye, except to add, that it would be our permanent personality, the witness, rather than our present personality, that continues.

oops, looks like it's angel tony i refer to! hi skye et al, anyhoo!

Violet wrote:Why do some choose to return to become murderers and such? I'm sure that in the more enlightened state of spirit, you wouldn't want to do anything like that, this is yet another reason the whole reincarnation thing bothers me.

Hi Violet ,
if people do "choose to return" (and the jury is still out on that one) I'm sure they don't purposely choose to come back as murderers or criminals of some kind. Sadly those traits develope within a person during their earthly existence.

Mal

hi mal

what do you think causes these traits to develop?

sparkly wrote:hi mal

what do you think causes these traits to develop?

Hi sparkly ,
there can be many factors - their enviroment; their upbringing; peer pressure; and for some simply choice out of greed or hatred.

Mal

but mal, do you really think peer pressure or greed maketh a serial killer?
nice to meet you, btw.

i once woke from a dream (i feel was a past life memory, but a friend feels may be the result of childhood trauma making us feel the saint/ sinner ), where i was murdering people for the feeling of power and a curiosity about life and death- the process, the veil- its meaning.
i believe that, our ignorance leads us to bliss, joy, and love, through sorrow. in the words of kahlil Gibran; "Your joy is your sorrow unmasked.
And the selfsame well from which your laughter rises was oftentimes filled with your tears.
And how else can it be?
The deeper that sorrow carves into your being, the more joy you can contain."
“Ever has it been that love knows not its own depth until the hour of separation.”

skye wrote:Although 'bright' isn't a word I would have used AT, I do thank you for the compliment.

I think you are very smart indeed, skye! So many are failing to pay attention. I worry it may be too late.

Personally, I believe murderers or people who inflict untold suffering onto another do so because they have chosen - by use of their free will - to pursue that path whilst living in the physical world.

I think you're right Skye, (unless there is of course some kind of condition or health issue) even those who have bad childhoods etc, still have a choice as to whether they will do it or not.

AngelTony wrote: So many are failing to pay attention. I worry it may be too late.

Hi AT,
I can understand what you say, yet when we hit rock bottom there's really only one way to go. So, perhaps there will never be a too late scenario despite what we tend to observe through our physical eyes.