The ones we DON'T like

First topic message reminder :

It seems we don't change much when we cross over, at least not initially so what would happen if we had a stalker/abusive partner or parent on the earth plane, could we avoid them, do you think they'd go to a different plane, does anyone worry about re-uniting or bumping into someone they didn't like, for whatever reason?

"I understand what you are saying, Skye, this is the fantasy we are living here and the real world is in spirit. We are like play actors living a life of make belief? We go home at the end of the show."


That's not an analogy I can accept.

We do not live in a "real world" elsewhere any more than we live in a world of fantasy here in the physical. We're not actors with roles that an author created. The roles we have are very real ones, they may even be the ones we chose for ourselves, roles which impact our present and may impact our future.

Each world in which we manifest is as real as any other. In each world we have experiences which shape who we are and where we too help shape that environment.

An actor plays a transient part in a wholly created and prescribed role - nothing is changed inside or outside of it. Make-belief from beginning.

Perhaps, though, that's how you feel about your life but it's not how I feel about mine....

"I do agree our physical lives are as real to us, as life would be when we're in the spirit world." Do you not also think that our lives are real in themselves and not simply to ourselves? We may be only small players but what of those individuals whose lives have had massive, even global, impacts? Are you saying that such lives would be real only to the individual who experienced it/them? That their lives have no more significance than that?

My comment, " It's what we don't see that is reality, and what we do see, is nothing more than fantasy or simply an illusion." was in respect that in reality everyone is a spirit in the here and now, not just the physical image or personality we see of each other or, look at in the mirror. I see your point.... Understandably, a majority of people are unaware of their spirit counterpart for one reason or another, more than likely because very few are unable to see it, or are ignorant of it's existence. Yes I follow but our present unawareness of our true spiritual selves is only skin-deep. Are you meaning that the experiences of life in-the-body are similarly skin-deep, without real meaning? As much as our physical lives and our experiences are of importance for the purpose of our souls or our spiritual progression, what we see in our environment has much less value, therefore, imo nothing but an illusion. I see our world, our environment, wholly differently and one which has great overall value and meaning. Not an illusion in any sense. One which may well be necessary during our lives, but an illusion all the same. We'll continue to differ on this aspect I suspect.

No one really knows.

feather wrote:No one really knows.

How do you know that?

mac wrote:"I understand what you are saying, Skye, this is the fantasy we are living here and the real world is in spirit. We are like play actors living a life of make belief? We go home at the end of the show."


That's not an analogy I can accept.

We do not live in a "real world" elsewhere any more than we live in a world of fantasy here in the physical. We're not actors with roles that an author created. The roles we have are very real ones, they may even be the ones we chose for ourselves, roles which impact our present and may impact our future.

Each world in which we manifest is as real as any other. In each world we have experiences which shape who we are and where we too help shape that environment.

An actor plays a transient part in a wholly created and prescribed role - nothing is changed inside or outside of it. Make-belief from beginning.

Perhaps, though, that's how you feel about your life but it's not how I feel about mine....

I felt that Skye had a good point there,Mac.

Maybe 'fantasy' is the wrong word to choose because it means if we spend time on other planets in the universe,they cannot all be fantasy.

So I see your point.

But I do believe we spend time elsewhere to learn and progess through all aspects of 'life'.

What other reason would reincarnation mean?

[quote="Joanie"][quote="mac"]"I understand what you are saying, Skye, this is the fantasy we are living here and the real world is in spirit. We are like play actors living a life of make belief? We go home at the end of the show."


That's not an analogy I can accept.

We do not live in a "real world" elsewh...................hing is changed inside or outside of it. Make-belief from beginning.

Perhaps, though, that's how you feel about your life but it's not how I feel about mine....



"I felt that Skye had a good point there,Mac. Maybe 'fantasy' is the wrong word to choose because it means if we spend time on other planets in the universe,they cannot all be fantasy. " It's the word 'illusion' that doesn't sit comfortably with me....

"So I see your point. But I do believe we spend time elsewhere to learn and progess through all aspects of 'life'. " We may spend time elsewhere other than in the usual etheric levels we know about but that doesn't make it automatic and/or for all individuals... Not for one moment do I think we could, or need to, "learn and progress through all aspects of life" as you suggest. There are so many aspects that it might take an eternity to cover even most let alone all.... I suggest that what we don't experience (first-time-around or within a few lifetimes) may not be vital and/or we may experience them vicariously - from the experiences we learn from /share with other members of our soul-cell - experiences which are personally relevant or important.

"What other reason would reincarnation mean?" Certain experiences may be important enough to need experiencing directly, personally, and/or we may wish, may choose, certain experiences we're not satisfied we did well enough with on the first (or later) occasion(s). The element of choice is what's so important to consider when looking at multiple lives, reincarnation to use the common name.

That freedom to exercise choice is a direct consequence of the law of freewill in action. We have the freewill to return and we have the same freewill to decide not to. That's where folk who say there definitely isn't reincarnation, and those who say it happens to us all, are both wrong.

Now we're talking!

To exercise free will.

We not have to reincarnate if we do not want to,we can quite happily spend as much time as we like in the lower realms,sit there as long as we like.

But that will be as far as we go.

For those happy enough to do that,their choice.

We are given a choice of perhaps 3 lives or more,maybe more.

As an example,we can choose:-

A hard life or trouble throughout that life.

Maybe illness or hardship.

Ending in an early death.

To make up for the problems you suffered throughout that life.

Building more credits in that life.

Or!

We can choose an easy life,with a few hardships thrown in.

You're earned a bit of Kharma!

or!



The worst life of the lot.

You're really deserved this life. (not you,Mac!)

You have wasted a life that could have worked through all the problems in that life.

You are thoroughly evil.

So what plane do you imagine you will earn from that?

Rock bottom,I think.

Or!

A long life perhaps thoroughly boring,you end up waiting to die but you live on and on and finally die of extreme boredom.

That is approximately the four choices I heard about,reading a book from years ago.

I'm not quoting,just in my own words.

We are here to learn.

To better ourselves from each life we live.

This all leans towards 'educating' ourselves from what is learned in those lives.

We each suffer and gain from each life to teach ourselves all aspects of spirituality.

What other way could we learn kindness,forgiveness and service to others?

Phew!













Or.

We can choose a life that is middle of the road.

I don't think that we have to learn love at all (and that includes kindness, forgiveness, respect for and allowing others their free will) because that's is what we are underneath all our accumulations of thoughts and beliefs.

We just have to live life in all it's convoluted ways, washing away unhelpful beliefs and behaviours and cleaning up our act...unlearning.... until such time as we 'wake up' and see in stark reality who we really are.

Hello mac, I apologise for the delay in my reply. There was too much writing to click quote so I have highlighted your text in blue, whereas mine is in black.



Do you not also think that our lives are real in themselves and not simply to ourselves?

Yes of course I do mac. The very nature of our existence offers an explanation of forces being at work throughout the universe.



We may be only small players but what of those individuals whose lives have had massive, even global, impacts? Are you saying that such lives would be real only to the individual who experienced it/them? That their lives have no more significance than that?

No, I am not saying that. Although, in my opinion, ones personal experience will influence how we perceive other people's action's or behaviour in how we choose to relate to a particular situation, a person, or society as a whole.

There is not one person whose life could ever be regarded as insignificant. Souls incarnate as human beings to learn lessons from earthly experiences, irrespective of how they come to our personal attention. People's experience can be totally soul destroying and have a devastating impact on us, or equally, they can be uplifting and inspirational. I believe the challenge for us as individuals is to respond to such events in a manner that is favourable for our spiritual development. I admit this is not always easy nonetheless, we should at least try.


Yes I follow but our present unawareness of our true spiritual selves is only skin-deep. Are you meaning that the experiences of life in-the-body are similarly skin-deep, without real meaning?

No, far from it mac. Eventually we will all come to understand that there is a real purpose and a deeper meaning attached to every life experience we have, whether we reside here in the physical world or in the world of spirit. Life itself provides us with suitable conditions that allow us to learn. These circumstances are intended to be advantageous to the spiritual development and progression of both our spirit and soul.


I see our world, our environment, wholly differently and one which has great overall value and meaning. Not an illusion in any sense.

Furthermore, life will always have its share of hardships and problems for each one of us. However, if our focus tends to be on the side of materialism, it's likely our thoughts will lead us into a false sense of reality or an 'illusion' because we may struggle to accept personal responsibility for our own actions. We may even want to control the outcome of events or, perhaps it's our refusal to let go of a situation for fear of an unknown future that prevents us from achieving a positive attitude.able conclusion. Whatever the reason may happen to be, it's this or a similar mode of thinking that can cause most people to worry and suffer needlessly, which is why I said there is less value in what we perceive our environment to be. This is also why I referred to it as an illusion, because unlike our soul, material thoughts and objects and our own problems as we resolve them will eventually fade away.

We'll continue to differ on this aspect I suspect.

In hindsight, I now wonder if 'illusion' was the right word to use, although at the time it did feel right. Besides I couldn't come up with a different word. I suspect I have confused you even more.