UFO's:The Real Deal?

Carolyn wrote:I have medical documentation of the "scoop" scar behind my front top teeth from when I was 7 and they took samples of, what were then, my only permanent teeth. I don't have medical documentation from my opthamologist of the vitreous fluid being taken because that leaves no scar, but the opthomologist has told me that my white knuckled, hyperventilation physical response to having a glaucoma test (which I have only been able to stomach sitting thru three times in my entire life), is not uncommon for people who have told him that they had dreams of being taken by aliens and something injected in their eye. My implant is available to be seen on xray, as it was found on x-ray December 13, 1991 - if you would like to see it, I'd be glad to have it x-rayed at your expense, but I'm not having the thing removed because my exhusbands implant, when it was removed, was simply replaced a few weeks after. I have no desire for a repeat of that experience. They havent come for me in 9 years, I'd prefer it to stay that way. I'm sorry for speaking out so bluntly, but you did generalize your statement to include all people who were believers in UFO's, so that did include me.

Is speaking publicly such a taboo topic that a person has to be made to feel pointed out even among an open minded, supposedly non-prejudiced forum? To speak about the actual presence of UFO's is taboo even among the spiritual community, which makes no sense. I don't go to UFO forums because the majority of people there are either extremely angry, or extremely skeptical (and only there to bash because the lack of evidence that some people are willing to give). Very few are actual abductees (I hate that word, makes a person appear vulnerable). I can say that over the 13 years I have had a computer with internet, I've met only 3 other people who had medical evidence to back up their claim of being taken. It makes me SO angry that my child has to endure the same tests being done, the same feeling of not knowing when the next time will be, the same fear of waking up in a strange place, and most of all - the fear that when SHE has a child, guess what - the pattern has a 1 in 4 chance that it will continue, because for some reason, something in our DNA is important.

Geeze....evidently I needed that vent.

I'm sorry for lashing out. Ban me, block me, whatever you want to do. I'm owning up to the fact that I'm at fault. But I'm not sorry for what I said.

mia wrote:Mac, those who have been taken by et's and had surgical procedures done, been frightened and have no one to tell cos most don't know what to say and probably won't be believed anyway, maybe not even be able to talk about it, don't really need someone to answer like you did.

I liken being taken, as being tied up and raped.
With the knowledge it can happen anytime and there is no way of stopping it, nowhere to hide, no one to help even.

Although I have never been hurt myself, I know others who have.
So please treat Carolyne gently, put yourself in her shoes if you can.

It takes a lot to speak out, to share ones story.

I wasn't aware I had done anything other than ask questions - do you expect that I should simply accept what's said?

As you've had similar experiences perhaps you could explain why the events are not as often claimed, the figments of vivid imaginations - they're not my words!

As I pointed out elsewhere, I'm often challenged too but for totally different reasons and getting mad would do nothing to persuade others to listen further. Challenge is surely to be expected but I said nothing to rubbish what had been said; I just wanted evidence I could recognise as such.

Put the boot on your own foot if I were to tell you some of the stuff I could tell you about the 'spooks' scene if you don't know much spiritually. You might think I was cracked and had a vivid imagination and that's just the reaction I do get. Would you just accept and believe everything I wrote?

mia wrote:

I wasn't aware I had done anything other than ask questions - do you expect that I should simply accept what's said?

I cannot really speak for Carolyne, if it was my story though, I wouldn't mind some questions, but asked sensitively.
However I would be very upset if I thought you didn't accept what I said.
If you don't, it's best to keep quiet, cos as I said it is a very sensitive subject.

As you've had similar experiences perhaps you could explain why the events are not as often claimed, the figments of vivid imaginations - they're not my words!

Anyone who claims it is a figment of imagination has never experienced being taken.
On the other hand maybe it is the abductees way of explaining it to themselves to tone down the trauma?

As I pointed out elsewhere, I'm often challenged too but for totally different reasons and getting mad would do nothing to persuade others to listen further. Challenge is surely to be expected but I said nothing to rubbish what had been said; I just wanted evidence I could recognise as such.

As I said, being taken is, in my mind, similar to being raped, a sensitive subject. I myself dont care if anyone wants to listen further. I won't post my experiences here, they are nothing like Carolynes or her daughters, but they are personal and I only show them to a select few. Who I know won't challenge me for evidence, but will believe me cos they know me, or have had similar themselves.

Put the boot on your own foot if I were to tell you some of the stuff I could tell you about the 'spooks' scene if you don't know much spiritually. You might think I was cracked and had a vivid imagination and that's just the reaction I do get. Would you just accept and believe everything I wrote?

Yes, if I didn't believe or understand, I may think you were cracked, but, I would not let you think that, cos it's your experience, not mine.
I may humour you or not answer.
I would never put your beliefs down though.

Perhaps we now should really allow the other member to present her own take on the situation and not speak for her or about her?

I may humour you or not answer." Isn't humouring someone simply supercilious?

Spirit Guide wrote: Dear Members of the Forum,

If you would want to form your own opinion on the existence(or non-existence)of UFO's you do not have to spend a lot of money to buy a sophisticated telescope.
You can sleep peacefully at night,because there is no need to observe the sky 24/7 to watch out for mysterious glowing objects.
The only thing you have to do,is to watch documentaries and interviews on Youtube.
Of cause you will come across the testimony of cult leaders,who will make you believe,that the sale of apple pie should be forbidden,because UFO-inhabitants are planning to raid our planet because of their insatiable appetite for it.
You will have to be very selective watching the videos and you will have to draw your own conclusions.
But I think,that at the end of the day,it is nearly impossible for any reasonable person to disregard so much impressive evidence from so many police officers,Professors,radar personell,military officers and abductees.
The interview on Larry King live (CNN)was broadcast on july 18 1980.

Thanks for your attention,
Spirit Guide.

gilly wrote:The existence of UFO's--is a 'hypothesis' to some (mac) and a fact to those who have experienced them.

I HAVE NOT!!! I hasten to add.

WE must all really start to apply 'scientific reasoning' (mac) more accurately!

A hypothesis remains a possibility until it is 'PROVEN' or 'DISPROVEN'!

Proper scientific exploration does not jettison the last half of this statement.

It is not just the people who state a hypothesis that need to try and prove it--BUT also those who attempt to refute it must provide proof to the contrary.

I am getting a little tired of those who purport to be looking at things scientifically when they do not follow these 'scientific rules'!!!!

Peter

Dear members of this Forum,

Even if some eminent and highly qualified scientist were to come forward with "scientific evidence"that UFO abductions did NOT take place,that still would give no explanation for the phenomenon.
This is not about the odd gullible person who makes up sci fi stories to amuse himself.
Thousands and thousands of people make these claims.
You do not have to be a qualified psychiatrist to understand and to see that those people are deeply shocked and sometimes even traumatised by their experience.
Many of these people are not psychotic and they do not suffer from schizofrenia.
Moreover,although they ara gradually being taken more serious in these times,they all do have their negative experiences with NOT being taken seriously and by NOT being treated with respect.
Why would I make up a story about my own "UFO abduction"?
Because I love to lead a life in which I am the laughingh stock at parties?
Why would so many highly qualified and respected military personnell put their reputation on the line making claims,that UFO's do not only exist,but that they are under intelligent control by extraterrestrial visitors.?
What about the Belgian F16 pilot who chased a UFO and who later talked about his experience on television.?
A Belgian Kolonel later confirmed his story.
There is a lot more to this phenomenon,than most people think,but thye do not invest the time and the energy to "dig down deep"in the huge pile of evidence.
Even if nobody on this planet had ever been abducted,that would still not explain why millions of people had recollections and fears because of these "non existing events".

Thanks for your attention,
Spirit Guide.

Spirit Guide wrote: Dear Mac,

When people are discussing the evidence for a phenomenon,first they will have to agree on what is regarded as evidence.
If I were to show a picture of a UFO hovering over my house,one person would regard that as legitimate evidence for the existence
of UFO's.
But even the acceptance of "something hovering over my house"does not go to prove,that this is an alien spacecraft.
Another person may dismiss my photgraph alltogether.He may think that the problem could be solved more easily by supposing that my picture was an example of computer animated graphics.
So,in the end,my picture would neither prove or disprove anything.
But let's get creative and turn the entire problem around.
Mac,just suppose you yourself were an alien being in your faster-than-light spacecraft.
What would you do to provide Humankind with the irrefutable evidence of your existence?
I think,that is a very interesting question for all of us on this Forum to consider!

Warm Greetings!
Spirit Guide.

Spirit Guide wrote: Dear Mac,

When people are discussing the evidence for a phenomenon,first they will have to agree on what is regarded as evidence.
If I were to show a picture of a UFO hovering over my house,one person would regard that as legitimate evidence for the existence
of UFO's.
But even the acceptance of "something hovering over my house"does not go to prove,that this is an alien spacecraft.
Another person may dismiss my photgraph alltogether.He may think that the problem could be solved more easily by supposing that my picture was an example of computer animated graphics.
So,in the end,my picture would neither prove or disprove anything.
But let's get creative and turn the entire problem around.
Mac,just suppose you yourself were an alien being in your faster-than-light spacecraft.
What would you do to provide Humankind with the irrefutable evidence of your existence?
I think,that is a very interesting question for all of us on this Forum to consider!

Warm Greetings!
Spirit Guide.

mac wrote:

gilly wrote:The existence of UFO's--is a 'hypothesis' to some (mac) and a fact to those who have experienced them.

I HAVE NOT!!! I hasten to add.

WE must all really start to apply 'scientific reasoning' (mac) more accurately!

A hypothesis remains a possibility until it is 'PROVEN' or 'DISPROVEN'!

Proper scientific exploration does not jettison the last half of this statement.

It is not just the people who state a hypothesis that need to try and prove it--BUT also those who attempt to refute it must provide proof to the contrary.

I am getting a little tired of those who purport to be looking at things scientifically when they do not follow these 'scientific rules'!!!!

Peter

WE must all start to apply scientific reasoning (mac) chides the individual who says about his interests:

"Job/hobbies: Writing Sci/Fi and Fantasy" (my underlining for emphasis)

One might justifiably feel concern about the risk of blurring the lines at times between science fact, science fiction and fantasy.....

gilly wrote:

mac wrote:

gilly wrote:The existence of UFO's--is a 'hypothesis' to some (mac) and a fact to those who have experienced them.

I HAVE NOT!!! I hasten to add.

WE must all really start to apply 'scientific reasoning' (mac) more accurately!

A hypothesis remains a possibility until it is 'PROVEN' or 'DISPROVEN'!

Proper scientific exploration does not jettison the last half of this statement.

It is not just the people who state a hypothesis that need to try and prove it--BUT also those who attempt to refute it must provide proof to the contrary.

I am getting a little tired of those who purport to be looking at things scientifically when they do not follow these 'scientific rules'!!!!

Peter

WE must all start to apply scientific reasoning (mac) chides the individual who says about his interests:

"Job/hobbies: Writing Sci/Fi and Fantasy" (my underlining for emphasis)

One might justifiably feel concern about the risk of blurring the lines at times between science fact, science fiction and fantasy.....

If that is the best you can do in the way of a scientific response--I am almost tempted to say 'point proven'

My words about 'Hypotheses' still stand--it is as important to prove as well as disprove--you only ever appear to argue from one side--your science is incomplete!!

Peter