What if there was no afterlife?

First topic message reminder :

Suppose someone proved there was no afterlife how would this affect you, I don't mean regarding your beliefs as such, but would it make you more fearful of death?

Friends, or "online" relationships are very superficial. I mean really, I know I feel somewhat closer to unconditional love for others ONLY because of years of planting myself into a strong belief that if I do not do this, I will be removed from the site of Gods face. Years ago, I was surrounded with friends that took decades to build, and they said they stand by me, relatives that always came over to my house and stood by me, business partners that were dedicated in making sure we were close to continue building a dream. When I got sick, and could not work anymore, my REAL LIFE friends, relatives, partners, disappeared. I mean vanished! I mean in one week THEY WERE ALL GONE. The ONLY ones that were there to help me was my church, because they were driven by different ways of thought.

As you sit there in this "digitally" created universe ONLINE, do not tell me that you have "unconditional" love for me as an "online" friend. You may imagine you do, because its so easy to go offline and say to yourself that you do, but if I give you an address, would you donate money to help us pay some of our bills? Would you take a week off of work to come visit me, and pay for the plane ride? Would I, no of course not. Look closely at the word - unconditional! We have a problem being human in that we can convince ourselves of things that are not true and hide behind lies that we think we believe. Walk the walk, but talk the talk is cheap. How many here has given money to help the poor when Haiti got nailed last year. How much help do you think you give to charities and does it hurt when you give? No, really don’t reply with tons of useless words that mean nothing to my cleverly built avatar name as you post here, that also means nothing to you.

Unconditional is this, picture standing up in front of an insane assassin with a loaded gun. He is pointing at your child, then your spouse, at you, at your best friend, at your friend from work, at your friend from facebook, and at someone you do not know. He then asks, I will kill only one of you? What do you say? Who do you choose? The problem with this, is that all I can here is what you will now “say” to this post. The walk the walk, most all of you will never see. Dont even bother to answer. Most will skip it anyways.

I'm not skipping it, Tony. One thing bothers me a bit and it is that religion seems to me to be about only self interest in the end. How do you know when someone is "doing good deeds" out of true altruism and when they are done out of selfishness. What I mean is the kind of thinking that says, "If I do this good deed , I will earn brownie points in Heaven so I'd better do it". This is self interest, self love.How does a Christian cope with this dilemma?

Viking wrote:I'm not skipping it, Tony. One thing bothers me a bit and it is that religion seems to me to be about only self interest in the end. How do you know when someone is "doing good deeds" out of true altruism and when they are done out of selfishness. What I mean is the kind of thinking that says, "If I do this good deed , I will earn brownie points in Heaven so I'd better do it". This is self interest, self love.How does a Christian cope with this dilemma?

About my above post then viking, Who do you choose?

As you sit there in this "digitally" created universe ONLINE, do not tell me that you have "unconditional" love for me as an "online" friend. You may imagine you do, because its so easy to go offline and say to yourself that you do, but if I give you an address, would you donate money to help us pay some of our bills? Would you take a week off of work to come visit me, and pay for the plane ride?

That's placing conditions on friendship and love, how do you know we are not in an even worse position than you financially and it's also judgemental and measuring friendship by a bank balance.
You assume a lot about us Tony and it hurts as I thought you were our friend and just for the record i'd take the bullet every single time, even for you.

Tony, that's a hypothetical question and a situation that's not likely to happen so, hypothetically, I call for my pet lion to maul him to pieces.

Friendship is not measured by or restricted to money matters or travelling long distances. Sometimes what we want to do is impossible for various reasons eg having little money, having a sick mother to look after, having a phobia about flying etc etc. It's not so simple as you seem to think to show the strength of the friendship we have for others.

Violet wrote:

As you sit there in this "digitally" created universe ONLINE, do not tell me that you have "unconditional" love for me as an "online" friend. You may imagine you do, because its so easy to go offline and say to yourself that you do, but if I give you an address, would you donate money to help us pay some of our bills? Would you take a week off of work to come visit me, and pay for the plane ride?

That's placing conditions on friendship and love, how do you know we are not in an even worse position than you financially and it's also judgemental and measuring friendship by a bank balance.
You assume a lot about us Tony and it hurts as I thought you were our friend and just for the record i'd take the bullet every single time, even for you.

I am your friend but if we are gonna go into it this deep then lets look at the real world even deeper. When you see your REAL WORLD friends disappear over-night, you begin to think differently now. When anyone gets tired of AngelSam talking on here with 43 posts, just shut your computer off. You can forget me with a single PERMANENT BAN on my posting ability. Gone...pooof!

Hello Tony
I am your 'friend' even if I do not agree with you in what you believe.
I do send my 'Love' unconditionally to all that post on these forums.
I have been blessed in that i know what 'unconditional love' is!!
I must be blunt with you! You are a lost soul! You are not thinking or operating or living in the 'LIGHT'.
It is NOT about religeon--it is about understanding 'reality'
I give 'UNCONDITIONAL LOVE' every day! I give it here in 'cyber-space' and Igive it in the 'Real World'.
Tony--I offer you my unconditional love --will you accept it??
Peter

When you see your REAL WORLD friends disappear over-night, you begin to think differently now.

No I just come to the realisation that maybe they weren't TRUE friends after all, but I also examine my behaviour towards them.

You can forget me with a single PERMANENT BAN on my posting ability. Gone...pooof!

Speaking as someone who can ban people it's no where near as clear cut as you make out, do you think we ban and forget so easily? In the case of spammers yes, but those we've come to know, perhaps even friends we have to ban it does play on your mind very heavily because by behaving in a way which causes someone to get a ban shows that perhaps you didn't really know them after all. PLease don't asume banning is easy because it isn't.

When anyone gets tired of AngelSam talking on here with 43 posts, just shut your computer off

Perhaps this is true for most but I can't shut it off and walk away as I own the place, no one has EVER in this forums history made me want to log out and go away.

geez, again viking i could have written that post (127). except i would say it is your and my problem, not that of the religious folk...yet. have you ever read c.s.s lewis books on narnia?
tony, i'm getting that you are feeling isolated with not so many places to turn. less than a moon ago, tomblues wrote something similar before ditching us all. they say you have to be a friend to have a friend. i don't know. i don't have many friends. i think i'm autistic because i hate small talk and what passes for a good time with a lot of folk. viking is right in her subsequent post, you do have to take into consideration those people's constraints. why don't you come over here and do all those things you mentioned? in addition you can cook and clean for me on account of my CFS.
we all of us have our problems tony, and that is not in the least discounting yours. maybe you need to broaden your definition of love.
god or what ever you call it bless you violet. my bring tears to my eyes. don't be hurt dear one.

Viking wrote:I must say I agree with Rainbow as regards my sons and my animals

What is it about our animals? Is it because they love us unconditionally? I'd be lost witout my pets

Will we meet up with our pets in the afterlife too? I hope so I'd love to see them all again

Thank you Sparkly i'm ok.

Oh yes, definately Rainbow they don't care if we smell or haven't brushed our teeth or hair or what kind of clothes we wear or what books we read or how much (or little ) we have in the bank.

Rainbow wrote:Will we meet up with our pets in the afterlife too? I hope so I'd love to see them all again

I'm a firm believer that we will, I have had several pets come through in readings over the years both when giving them and recieving them.

I know mine don't care what I wear lol I've got the scrattiest pair of jeans on the planet and they don't look at me in disgust I've never heard them whispering about me behind my back anyhow

I'm going to need that farmhouse then lol I'd love to see Bess and Sheba and little Nipper the jack russel and all the others.

PPrncpl7 wrote:Hello Tony
I am your 'friend' even if I do not agree with you in what you believe.
I do send my 'Love' unconditionally to all that post on these forums.
I have been blessed in that i know what 'unconditional love' is!!
I must be blunt with you! You are a lost soul! You are not thinking or operating or living in the 'LIGHT'.
It is NOT about religeon--it is about understanding 'reality'
I give 'UNCONDITIONAL LOVE' every day! I give it here in 'cyber-space' and Igive it in the 'Real World'.
Tony--I offer you my unconditional love --will you accept it??
Peter

Yes I will accept it Peter, but do I believe it! No I don’t. Not anymore.

After months of watching this and seeing real friends and especially relatives evaporate, I will not trust anyone now other than to leave a few interesting spiritual posts and/or read them now. I am sorry this had to get this way, but watch out what we say. This is a word factory, and that’s it. It took me 35 years to finally believe what was written thousands of years ago by very spiritual men connected directly to God. Do I believe someone on facebook that likes to yap! (Including me)…nope!

I will bow out of this post now! Thank you and sorry if I upset anyone, I call it like I see it.

AngelTony wrote:

PPrncpl7 wrote:Hello Tony
I am your 'friend' even if I do not agree with you in what you believe.
I do send my 'Love' unconditionally to all that post on these forums.
I have been blessed in that i know what 'unconditional love' is!!
I must be blunt with you! You are a lost soul! You are not thinking or operating or living in the 'LIGHT'.
It is NOT about religeon--it is about understanding 'reality'
I give 'UNCONDITIONAL LOVE' every day! I give it here in 'cyber-space' and Igive it in the 'Real World'.
Tony--I offer you my unconditional love --will you accept it??
Peter

Yes I will accept it Peter, but do I believe it! No I don’t. Not anymore.
Hi Tony, that is your right.

After months of watching this and seeing real friends and especially relatives evaporate, I will not trust anyone now other than to leave a few interesting spiritual posts and/or read them now. I am sorry this had to get this way, but watch out what we say. This is a word factory, and that’s it. It took me 35 years to finally believe what was written thousands of years ago by very spiritual men connected directly to God. Do I believe someone on facebook that likes to yap! (Including me)…nope!

I will bow out of this post now! Thank you and sorry if I upset anyone, I call it like I see it.

This is your right too, but Tony you asked many questions of us in this thread and now you are leaving it.

I haven't followed or contributed to this thread but I've often seen this kind of situation before.

An individual is so emotionally involved, so passionate about her/his beliefs that they're unable to continue to work with others, unable to dispassionately answer challenge to their words, unwilling to listen when their claims are addressed by others....

So emotional that they mistake their own hurt as fearing that they are upsetting others.

It's sad that such individuals are happy to tell others their shortcomings but at the same time they fail to demonstrate the tolerance and humility shown by the very individual(s) they worship....

mac wrote:I haven't followed or contributed to this thread but I've often seen this kind of situation before.

An individual is so emotionally involved, so passionate about her/his beliefs that they're unable to continue to work with others, unable to dispassionately answer challenge to their words, unwilling to listen when their claims are addressed by others....

So emotional that they mistake their own hurt as fearing that they are upsetting others.

It's sad that such individuals are happy to tell others their shortcomings but at the same time they fail to demonstrate the tolerance and humility shown by the very individual(s) they worship....

No mac, its just a bad day. Even Christians screw up once in a while as well.

AngelTony wrote:

mac wrote:I haven't followed or contributed to this thread but I've often seen this kind of situation before.

An individual is so emotionally involved, so passionate about her/his beliefs that they're unable to continue to work with others, unable to dispassionately answer challenge to their words, unwilling to listen when their claims are addressed by others....

So emotional that they mistake their own hurt as fearing that they are upsetting others.

It's sad that such individuals are happy to tell others their shortcomings but at the same time they fail to demonstrate the tolerance and humility shown by the very individual(s) they worship....

No mac, its just a bad day. Even Christians screw up once in a while as well.

So show me I'm not right in your case....please?

AngelTony wrote:

mac wrote:I haven't followed or contributed to this thread but I've often seen this kind of situation before.

An individual is so emotionally involved, so passionate about her/his beliefs that they're unable to continue to work with others, unable to dispassionately answer challenge to their words, unwilling to listen when their claims are addressed by others....

So emotional that they mistake their own hurt as fearing that they are upsetting others.

It's sad that such individuals are happy to tell others their shortcomings but at the same time they fail to demonstrate the tolerance and humility shown by the very individual(s) they worship....

No mac, its just a bad day. Even Christians screw up once in a while as well.

Tony if that's the case I hope you are feeling much better, and you're right we can all have a bad day.

To answer the question Violet, What if There is No Afterlife..... personally I shall be rather peeved! I'm hoping there is one as it would be good to catch up with everyone I've lost so far, pets included

Do animals survive?

In her book, “When Your Animal Dies” (Spiritualist Press), Sylvia Barbanell says: "I have attended many direct-voice sittings held by Mrs Estelle Roberts, the famous medium, whose psychic gifts have done so much to convince sceptics of the truths of Survival.



"At one of these séances I heard a 'dead' retriever named Lon greet his owner. Dr. Margaret Vivian, by barking through the trumpet.



From the same book we are told: "Mr R. H. Saunders, a Spiritualist of considerable knowledge, who has now passed on, has told many interesting stories of animal survival.




In “Psychic News” he wrote: 'When Mrs Blanche Cooper, who is a great animal-lover, was giving séances at the British College of Psychic

Science, it was quite a common incident for dogs and cats to materialise, and to be handled for a few minutes.'

"He also told of his collie dog which over fifty years ago had to be destroyed.



Once, it manifested at a séance.



Mr Saunders wrote, 'It gave a joyful bark when I called out its name and, as I fondled it, I felt its coat gradually melting under my hands...' "



We read that at a séance with Mrs Etta Wriedt, one of the sitter's was told by the medium's guide: " 'There's a horse here belonging to one of you,' at which there was a laugh.



"The guide, with some asperity, said, 'You may laugh, but let me tell you that people here have their horses, dogs and pets. Ah! you little know the spirit world.' . . ."



In his booklet “Animals in the Spirit World”, Harold Sharp says:



"When I was six years old we had a dog named Hector. A big lumbering dog.



It knocked me over many times and then would tug at my jacket trying to pull me up again.



If he had been a man instead of a dog I fear that he might well have become a drunkard. I never knew a dog with such a thirst.




He seemed to thrive on drinking.

Every bucket of water, puddle of water, the water in the horses' drinking troughs, dripping taps and if none

of these were available he would pull at my mother's skirt and draw her towards the pump.

Hector had been 'dead' for twenty years.



I had almost forgotten his existence until one evening in a physical circle, at the home of Glover Botham in Golders Green, Hector, in full view of everybody, materialised.



There was a large blue china bowl of water on the floor in the centre of the circle as this is thought sometimes to add power to aid various manifestations.



The materialised Hector, unmindful of the purpose for which the water was supplied, set to and very noisily lapped up the whole of it. Then he barked loudly as though to say, 'Wasn't that clever.'



Later we heard that his bark had been heard by the two ladies living next door."



Mr Sharp continues with an interesting account of the return of a bird:

"At about the same time I was at another séance when a lovely blue-green budgerigar materialised in a room, which was in strong red light.



There were eight people present.



Gradually a blue-green mist began to move over the sitters' heads and from this ectoplasmic formation there flew a budgerigar.

It circled around the room then settled on a man's shoulder. He had owned the bird two years previously but it had been 'killed' by a cat.



It evidently recognised its owner, for in a very clear voice – as though appealing to him it said, 'I want a cigarette.'



This made everyone laugh.



It appears that its owner was a chain-smoker and had so often made this remark that the budgie had learned to mimic him."

Oh to see a beloved pet once more.
Wonderful account,Z.
The only communication I have had with my pet dog,Pippin has been dreams where I dreamed I was walking her along the beach.
I picked her up in the dream and can still remember the feel of her fur under my fingers.
Joanie

I believe these are visits Joanie, I think we're more accepting of these visits in dream.